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Forums - Sony - What Will Happen With PlayStation 4 Next Generation?

enditall727 on 14 November 2011
NotStan said:
enditall727 said:
NotStan said:

I don't see it.

Sony has reported losses 4 consecutive years in a row as a company - although PS may turn profit, it's not big enough to nullify the losses in other departments, which are most likely affecting financials of the company as a whole, and with the Vita launch around the corner and most likely loss per unit, I don't see Sony making enough money to BUILD the console or being afford another launch till at least 2014 - Maybe when Vita becomes more profitable and the profits are squeezed out of PS3.

 

GT6 is likely as a launch title, but it'll definitely be there within a year of launch.


yes the PSVita will launch at a loss

it will cost Sony $310 to make the Vita but they will sell it at $250.

The $310 cost to make Vita will drop down to $280 by 2013

they make up for those losses with the software profits

but Sony's having the PSP around will also cancel out some of that loss at PSVita's launch

That still doesn't negate the fact that the other divisions - such as TV etc are far from profitable, not even breaking even. Where do you think they'd get the capital to launch a console when they've been losing money the last 4 years?

Hence my point, until financial situation improves with Sony, they'll likely delay launch as long as possible - the only people that actually want the next generation to come are the fanboys, so they can have bragging power, I highly doubt that the corporations such as Microsoft and Sony are in a rush to bring new console out, although MS is in a better position to launch a new console than Sony is at the moment.

You know corporations don't have access to unlimited amount of money, and I am genuinely surprised Sony can carry on spending money such as on the Ericsson deal when they're making a loss.

i thought Sony's Gaming division is strictly its gaming division and their Camera/TV side were strictly it's own division?

They dont overlap.

Sony Electronics, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Sony Computer Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Ericson and Sony Financial are all in different divisions and they stay IN THEIR OWN lane

and yea i agree about the fanboys though but even the fans also

i believe i have to be like the 1st PlayStation fan who has stated that i am starting to look forward to the next generation. I've never really seen any other PlayStation fan OR fanboy claim that they are waiting for the next generation

the only Fans and Fanboys i've seen who cant wait for the next generation are the Wii fans(justified because Nintendo have already announced Wii U) and Xbox Fans(mainly because they have no games) <-- NO OFFENSE TO ANY XBOX FANBOYS READING THIS but hey, it is what it is..



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NotStan on 14 November 2011
enditall727 said:
NotStan said:
enditall727 said:
NotStan said:

I don't see it.

Sony has reported losses 4 consecutive years in a row as a company - although PS may turn profit, it's not big enough to nullify the losses in other departments, which are most likely affecting financials of the company as a whole, and with the Vita launch around the corner and most likely loss per unit, I don't see Sony making enough money to BUILD the console or being afford another launch till at least 2014 - Maybe when Vita becomes more profitable and the profits are squeezed out of PS3.

 

GT6 is likely as a launch title, but it'll definitely be there within a year of launch.


yes the PSVita will launch at a loss

it will cost Sony $310 to make the Vita but they will sell it at $250.

The $310 cost to make Vita will drop down to $280 by 2013

they make up for those losses with the software profits

but Sony's having the PSP around will also cancel out some of that loss at PSVita's launch

That still doesn't negate the fact that the other divisions - such as TV etc are far from profitable, not even breaking even. Where do you think they'd get the capital to launch a console when they've been losing money the last 4 years?

Hence my point, until financial situation improves with Sony, they'll likely delay launch as long as possible - the only people that actually want the next generation to come are the fanboys, so they can have bragging power, I highly doubt that the corporations such as Microsoft and Sony are in a rush to bring new console out, although MS is in a better position to launch a new console than Sony is at the moment.

You know corporations don't have access to unlimited amount of money, and I am genuinely surprised Sony can carry on spending money such as on the Ericsson deal when they're making a loss.

i thought Sony's Gaming division is strictly its gaming division and their Camera/TV side were strictly it's own division?

They dont overlap.

Sony Electronics, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Sony Computer Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Ericson and Sony Financial are all in different divisions and they stay IN THEIR OWN lane

and yea i agree about the fanboys though but even the fans also

i believe i have to be like the 1st PlayStation fan who has stated that i am starting to look forward to the next generation. I've never really seen any other PlayStation fan OR fanboy claim that they are waiting for the next generation

the only Fans and Fanboys i've seen who cant wait for the next generation are the Wii fans(justified because Nintendo have already announced Wii U) and Xbox Fans(mainly because they have no games) <-- NO OFFENSE TO ANY XBOX FANBOYS READING THIS but hey, it is what it is..

I can't seem to get it through your head, SCE is owned by Sony, if Sony doesn't have much money, how will they give money to SCE - even if profitable, AS A WHOLE Sony isn't making any money, some divisions yeah - but why turn those divisions unprofitable when you can just leave them to bring the money in.

Your last statement speaks for itself really, I think you're flamebaiting here (again), and I am not going to rise up to it.

If Sony goes bankrupt SCE will go too because it's owned by Sony, and not a company on it's own.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

enditall727 on 14 November 2011
NotStan said:
enditall727 said:
NotStan said:
enditall727 said:
NotStan said:

I don't see it.

Sony has reported losses 4 consecutive years in a row as a company - although PS may turn profit, it's not big enough to nullify the losses in other departments, which are most likely affecting financials of the company as a whole, and with the Vita launch around the corner and most likely loss per unit, I don't see Sony making enough money to BUILD the console or being afford another launch till at least 2014 - Maybe when Vita becomes more profitable and the profits are squeezed out of PS3.

 

GT6 is likely as a launch title, but it'll definitely be there within a year of launch.


yes the PSVita will launch at a loss

it will cost Sony $310 to make the Vita but they will sell it at $250.

The $310 cost to make Vita will drop down to $280 by 2013

they make up for those losses with the software profits

but Sony's having the PSP around will also cancel out some of that loss at PSVita's launch

That still doesn't negate the fact that the other divisions - such as TV etc are far from profitable, not even breaking even. Where do you think they'd get the capital to launch a console when they've been losing money the last 4 years?

Hence my point, until financial situation improves with Sony, they'll likely delay launch as long as possible - the only people that actually want the next generation to come are the fanboys, so they can have bragging power, I highly doubt that the corporations such as Microsoft and Sony are in a rush to bring new console out, although MS is in a better position to launch a new console than Sony is at the moment.

You know corporations don't have access to unlimited amount of money, and I am genuinely surprised Sony can carry on spending money such as on the Ericsson deal when they're making a loss.

i thought Sony's Gaming division is strictly its gaming division and their Camera/TV side were strictly it's own division?

They dont overlap.

Sony Electronics, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Sony Computer Entertainment, Sony Music Entertainment, Sony Ericson and Sony Financial are all in different divisions and they stay IN THEIR OWN lane

and yea i agree about the fanboys though but even the fans also

i believe i have to be like the 1st PlayStation fan who has stated that i am starting to look forward to the next generation. I've never really seen any other PlayStation fan OR fanboy claim that they are waiting for the next generation

the only Fans and Fanboys i've seen who cant wait for the next generation are the Wii fans(justified because Nintendo have already announced Wii U) and Xbox Fans(mainly because they have no games) <-- NO OFFENSE TO ANY XBOX FANBOYS READING THIS but hey, it is what it is..

I can't seem to get it through your head, SCE is owned by Sony, if Sony doesn't have much money, how will they give money to SCE - even if profitable, AS A WHOLE Sony isn't making any money, some divisions yeah - but why turn those divisions unprofitable when you can just leave them to bring the money in.

Your last statement speaks for itself really, I think you're flamebaiting here (again), and I am not going to rise up to it.

If Sony goes bankrupt SCE will go too because it's owned by Sony, and not a company on it's own.


LMAO!

ok about the flamebaiting thing, so basically you are saying that i was flamebaiting because i told the truth? yea ok NotStan -_-

and i WAS NOT referring to YOU as being a fanboy if that's what you thought ..i was just saying LMAO

but if you took it that way then whatever..

 

i know that Sony basically didn't have any money UNTIL the PlayStation came on the scene

PlayStation was the reason why Sony made so much money besides the Walkman

so i dont know why Sony would give money to Sony Computer Entertainment when SCE is the money maker of the company

now the PS3 investment costed Sony a lot of money. I am awear that it completely wiped out all the hardware profits that were earned by the ps2 and went into the profits earned on ps1 hardware BUT IT DIDN'T WIPE PS1'S HARDWARE PROFITS OUT

SCE still had money, but not enough to throw around or spend

but what is so different about ps4 being launched in 2014 than it being launched in 2013?

you do realise that all Sony has to do is make sure that they dont invest a crap load into the PS4 that way they wont lose crazy loads of money when it launches

you do realise that this is what i have been saying the whole time right? -_-



NightDragon83 on 14 November 2011

Wii U 2012
NextBox 2013
PS4 2014

That's the way it is. Sony can't afford to launch another system within the next 2 years yet when the PS3 is finally starting to turning a profit for them, and with the impending Vita launch which is going to drain more cash from Sony (they're selling it at a loss), and where the long-term success of the platform is still very much up in the air.

The traditional "5-year" console cycle is long gone as of this generation. And even when it comes to Sony, they haven't had to stick to the arbitrary 5-year cycle the way Nintendo, Sega, and more recently M$ did... PS1 was already out for almost 5-1/2 years before PS2 launched in Japan, and it took more than 6 years between the PS2 and PS3 launch. Sony is only going to make their move when M$ does, because they don't feel that the Wii U is as big of a threat to them, as it's only catching up to the 360/PS3 in terms of power and graphical abilities, and won't be leaps and bounds over the PS3 like the "NextBox" will be.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

enditall727 on 14 November 2011
NightDragon83 said:
Wii U 2012
NextBox 2013
PS4 2014

That's the way it is. Sony can't afford to launch another system within the next 2 years yet when the PS3 is finally starting to turning a profit for them, and with the impending Vita launch which is going to drain more cash from Sony (they're selling it at a loss), and where the long-term success of the platform is still very much up in the air.

The traditional "5-year" console cycle is long gone as of this generation. And even when it comes to Sony, they haven't had to stick to the arbitrary 5-year cycle the way Nintendo, Sega, and more recently M$ did... PS1 was already out for almost 5-1/2 years before PS2 launched in Japan, and it took more than 6 years between the PS2 and PS3 launch. Sony is only going to make their move when M$ does, because they don't feel that the Wii U is as big of a threat to them, as it's only catching up to the 360/PS3 in terms of power and graphical abilities, and won't be leaps and bounds over the PS3 like the "NextBox" will be.


okay everybody seems to be pointing at the cost's/loss and what not and i can understand that BUT

how exactly do you know that Sony will make the move when M$ does? what if Sony just says "screw it" and decides to release there console before Microsoft does? what if they decide to roll with the weaker console? if Sony roles with the weaker console(which is pretty much what happened in the 6th generation) they will leave M$ in the dust HANDS DOWN and the console will for sure cost less to make because they wouldn't have had to outdo what M$ might bring next gen(not even mentioning that microsoft would try to outdo Sony resulting in them launching a year after them)

it would suck but hey as long as Sony brings the games then im cool :)



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NightDragon83 on 14 November 2011
enditall727 said:
NightDragon83 said:
Wii U 2012
NextBox 2013
PS4 2014

That's the way it is. Sony can't afford to launch another system within the next 2 years yet when the PS3 is finally starting to turning a profit for them, and with the impending Vita launch which is going to drain more cash from Sony (they're selling it at a loss), and where the long-term success of the platform is still very much up in the air.

The traditional "5-year" console cycle is long gone as of this generation. And even when it comes to Sony, they haven't had to stick to the arbitrary 5-year cycle the way Nintendo, Sega, and more recently M$ did... PS1 was already out for almost 5-1/2 years before PS2 launched in Japan, and it took more than 6 years between the PS2 and PS3 launch. Sony is only going to make their move when M$ does, because they don't feel that the Wii U is as big of a threat to them, as it's only catching up to the 360/PS3 in terms of power and graphical abilities, and won't be leaps and bounds over the PS3 like the "NextBox" will be.


okay everybody seems to be pointing at the cost's/loss and what not and i can understand that BUT

how exactly do you know that Sony will make the move when M$ does? what if Sony just says "screw it" and decides to release there console before Microsoft does? what if they decide to roll with the weaker console? if Sony roles with the weaker console(which is pretty much what happened in the 6th generation) they will leave M$ in the dust HANDS DOWN and the console will for sure cost less to make because they wouldn't have had to outdo what M$ might bring next gen(not even mentioning that microsoft would try to outdo Sony resulting in them launching a year after them)

it would suck but hey as long as Sony brings the games then im cool :)

Wishful thinking, but not gonna happen.  Sony would have had to do something like that by next year to steal Nintendo's thunder and get the jump on M$, who in all likelyhood will release the 360's successor in 2013.  If they were to release a console alongside or after Microsoft's that is deemed to be "weaker" or less powerful (no matter how much cheaper it is), it would seriously hurt them with the "core" gaming audience and their fans who expect Sony to be on the cutting edge when it comes to console hardware, and the casual audience wouldn't care either way because they'd still have the Wii / Wii U and Kinect to play with.

Also don't forget, the PS2 being the "weakest" of the major consoles last gen (aside from Dreamcast) was less a byproduct of its design as it was the timing of its actual release... the PS2's design was pretty much finalized by the end of '99 and launched in March '00 in Japan, yet the Xbox and GC ended up being only marginally more powerful than it despite both launching almost a full 2 years later.  Same thing with the PS1... it was finalized and launched alongside the Saturn in late '94 in Japan, and was still able to keep up with and easily outsell the more powerful N64 which came out 18 months later.

It's obvious that Sony isn't going to have the opportunity to get a jump on its competitors like that for the next generation, so best to allow the PS3 to continue to grow in market share and profitability for the time being, and then come out strong in 2014 with a console that's not only more powerful than its competitors, but also well designed and just as affordable (Sony should be able to match whatever price M$ is selling theirs at in 2014), while having a stacked library of AAA titles ready to go for launch, unlike the PS3's launch which stumbled out of the gate due to the high price point and no real killer app launch titles.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

IamAwsome on 14 November 2011
NightDragon83 said:
Wii U 2012
NextBox 2013
PS4 2014

That's the way it is. Sony can't afford to launch another system within the next 2 years yet when the PS3 is finally starting to turning a profit for them, and with the impending Vita launch which is going to drain more cash from Sony (they're selling it at a loss), and where the long-term success of the platform is still very much up in the air.

The traditional "5-year" console cycle is long gone as of this generation. And even when it comes to Sony, they haven't had to stick to the arbitrary 5-year cycle the way Nintendo, Sega, and more recently M$ did... PS1 was already out for almost 5-1/2 years before PS2 launched in Japan, and it took more than 6 years between the PS2 and PS3 launch. Sony is only going to make their move when M$ does, because they don't feel that the Wii U is as big of a threat to them, as it's only catching up to the 360/PS3 in terms of power and graphical abilities, and won't be leaps and bounds over the PS3 like the "NextBox" will be.

I still think that the PS4 will launch in 2013 because of the potential marketshare lost. Does Sony really want to launch after both the Wii U and NexBox, and even worse, give them a huge cushion to work with? I see Sony giving in even though they will effectively kill off a lot of PS3 profits. Also, Sony waiting until M$ to make their move is still up in the air because we won't know how well the Wii U will do. 

On a side note, I wouldn't write off the Wii U's power as we still don't know how much power it truely has under the hood, and we won't know until next year. 



thismeintiel on 15 November 2011
IamAwsome said:
NightDragon83 said:
Wii U 2012
NextBox 2013
PS4 2014

That's the way it is. Sony can't afford to launch another system within the next 2 years yet when the PS3 is finally starting to turning a profit for them, and with the impending Vita launch which is going to drain more cash from Sony (they're selling it at a loss), and where the long-term success of the platform is still very much up in the air.

The traditional "5-year" console cycle is long gone as of this generation. And even when it comes to Sony, they haven't had to stick to the arbitrary 5-year cycle the way Nintendo, Sega, and more recently M$ did... PS1 was already out for almost 5-1/2 years before PS2 launched in Japan, and it took more than 6 years between the PS2 and PS3 launch. Sony is only going to make their move when M$ does, because they don't feel that the Wii U is as big of a threat to them, as it's only catching up to the 360/PS3 in terms of power and graphical abilities, and won't be leaps and bounds over the PS3 like the "NextBox" will be.

I still think that the PS4 will launch in 2013 because of the potential marketshare lost. Does Sony really want to launch after both the Wii U and NexBox, and even worse, give them a huge cushion to work with? I see Sony giving in even though they will effectively kill off a lot of PS3 profits. Also, Sony waiting until M$ to make their move is still up in the air because we won't know how well the Wii U will do. 

On a side note, I wouldn't write off the Wii U's power as we still don't know how much power it truely has under the hood, and we won't know until next year. 

Yea, 2013 is more realistic for both the NeXbox and the PS4.  Sure, Sony isn't going to rush into next gen, but they also aren't going to give Nintendo a 2 year head start.  Besides, 2012 is really going to be the last great year for both the 360 and the PS3.  Sony will probably drop the entry price to ~$200, while MS is definitely going to drop the 250GB to around the same price.  So, while they both will be getting a small profit from their systems in 2013, they will both be down quite a bit YOY, which means most of the profit will be coming from existing users buying games.  A great time to start to move onto the next gen.



 

sales2099 on 15 November 2011
o_O.Q said:
sales2099 said:
enditall727 said:
sales2099 said:
enditall727 said:

 

and LOL dont give in to that PolyphonyDigital "perfectionist" crap. Polyphony shot GT5 Prologue out quick and it showed that they knew what they were doing with the ps3. i believe they were just riding out the whole Turn10's Forza 2 and 3. They looked at what Turn10 was doing and just simply out-did what they knew Turn10 could achieve on 360(1000 cars,weather,nascar,night/day cycle etc). Forza 4 proves what PolyphonyDigital was aiming for(seeing as how Turn10 was not able to outdo gt5 in those areas even though it came out later)

as far as sony making 2 dumb moves with PSVita.. okay tell me this, name 1 time that Sony released 1 of it's platforms before it's competitor? *crickets* exactly NEVER! They ALWAYS release IN competition!! I said it right there in the OP! On them missing the Na/Eu Holiday season i guess they dont want to "rush" anything like the way we seen Nintendo rush the 3DS

So your saying PD waits for Forza to make a move before acting? Thats not the behaviour of the supposed king of simulation......usually its they who should set the example. Thats why I don't buy it. Simply put, PS3 was a bitch to program for and they lost track of time, occasionally tweaking the game based on Forza 2 and Forza 3 features. But cmon there was little outdoing in the end. 3 Forzas, all 90+ on metacritic compared to one full GT game with a 84. They nailed some parts like the night and day cycles, but they still lacked a lot of features that Forza has. And cmon, 1000 cars. Its common sense 800 of them arent worth driving, even with the spec 2 update. 

I think Sony should rethink their launch strategies. Launching after Sega and still winning just ain't gonna cut it anymore. Today, launching later = loose. I see no reason to not rush the Vita.....trading lack of launch games for a holiday launch. Like the 3d......launching rushed leads to a head start, and room to grow and improve. Nintendo ironed out most of the 3DS kinks..........before the Vita even released. Thats the magic of a head start, rushed or not 

this has to be like the 5th time i've seen you make this claim but you never seem to be able to name them...

for gt5 i can think of dynamic weather - rain, snow etc, more race types like rally, F1, go karting etc, day-night transitions, course maker etc

for forza for the most part all i can think of is the livery editor, autovista and kinect integration

Oh please, don't make me your one stop source for Forza features. Try I don't know, wikipedia, the forza homepage, hell google "forza 4 vs GT5 features" and see what comes up :) Off the top of my head, its a lot of little things that make Forza a 90+ rated game. Simply put, Turn 10 makes a great sim AND a great video game, where PD neglects the video game aspect of their franchise, thus a 84 on metacritic. 

Lets see.....more tracks, more detailed tracks, 500 "premium" (500 > 200) cars, autovista, livery editor, better damage, better top gear integration (including the voice that narrates Forza 4), arguably better car sounds, arguably better simulation (many Forza 4 reviews claim this to be so). But its the little things, video game aspect stuff. Better single player "campaign", seamless menus, better in game music, vast amounts of online modes, and extremely community oriented, and kinect integration. Also Forza games get a lot of dedicated DLC per game and they release much faster then GT5s did. 

Does GT5 have rewind feature? Cause if not, then its another video game aspect that makes Forza better, for those looong races where one mistake leads to a loss and restarting is just too irritating. 

If I had to pick the most important of the lot it would have to be Autovista, 500 premium cars, livery editor, and the community features. Again, Forza is a better package, combining simulation with being a fun video game. Hence the 90+ franchise that GT can't really touch. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 15 November 2011
enditall727 said:
sales2099 said:
enditall727 said:
sales2099 said:
enditall727 said:

 

and LOL dont give in to that PolyphonyDigital "perfectionist" crap. Polyphony shot GT5 Prologue out quick and it showed that they knew what they were doing with the ps3. i believe they were just riding out the whole Turn10's Forza 2 and 3. They looked at what Turn10 was doing and just simply out-did what they knew Turn10 could achieve on 360(1000 cars,weather,nascar,night/day cycle etc). Forza 4 proves what PolyphonyDigital was aiming for(seeing as how Turn10 was not able to outdo gt5 in those areas even though it came out later)

as far as sony making 2 dumb moves with PSVita.. okay tell me this, name 1 time that Sony released 1 of it's platforms before it's competitor? *crickets* exactly NEVER! They ALWAYS release IN competition!! I said it right there in the OP! On them missing the Na/Eu Holiday season i guess they dont want to "rush" anything like the way we seen Nintendo rush the 3DS

So your saying PD waits for Forza to make a move before acting? Thats not the behaviour of the supposed king of simulation......usually its they who should set the example. Thats why I don't buy it. Simply put, PS3 was a bitch to program for and they lost track of time, occasionally tweaking the game based on Forza 2 and Forza 3 features. But cmon there was little outdoing in the end. 3 Forzas, all 90+ on metacritic compared to one full GT game with a 84. They nailed some parts like the night and day cycles, but they still lacked a lot of features that Forza has. And cmon, 1000 cars. Its common sense 800 of them arent worth driving, even with the spec 2 update. 

I think Sony should rethink their launch strategies. Launching after Sega and still winning just ain't gonna cut it anymore. Today, launching later = loose. I see no reason to not rush the Vita.....trading lack of launch games for a holiday launch. Like the 3d......launching rushed leads to a head start, and room to grow and improve. Nintendo ironed out most of the 3DS kinks..........before the Vita even released. Thats the magic of a head start, rushed or not 


yea Forza got those 90+'s on metacritic easily early on because Turn10 had no competition earlier this gen

the best driving simulator that released before Forza 2 was *drumrolls* Gran Turismo 4(which was on a last gen console)!

 and we all know that Gran Turismo 5 didn't release until after Forza 3 came out

look the only people who ever complained about ps3 being hard to develop for were people who had worked on 360(3rd party developers)

i remember 1 3rd party developer was explaining some things about ps3 and why it is more complex to develop for than other platforms

he was saying something about the ps3's divided ram and since it is divided into 2 parts that when you are using 1 section of the ram the other section will bite you in the a** if you do something specific but i cant really remember though

it kinda made sense because 360 has 1 whole 512 mb of ram and PS3 has 256 mb of system ram and another 256 mb of video ram

now if somebody like a Sony 1st party dev ONLY works on ps3 tell me how exactly would they find it to be hard to develop for if the ps3 is all they know?  how would they know that ps3 is difficult to develop for if they never even worked on something like the 360?

you should think about things before you say them man

and also lets say a regular person who owns ps3 and 360 goes to the store and is browsing for a racing game. Lets say that they just so happened to pick up Forza and Gran Turismo,reads the back and goes off of that information(which most people do for all games). Which game do you think they would pick? would they pick the 1 that has Nascar, night/day cycle, track editor, dynamic weather or would they pick the other one that doesn't have that stuff? clearly they would pick the game with the most content

it is what it is, you can say what you want about GT and Forza but Polyphony outdid Turn10's Forza games this gen with GT5 *lifts shoulders*


For your other comment on this page, that wall of text lol, just screams to me that your trying very hard to justify Sonys fall from grace this gen comapred to the glory days of PS2. You like to talk excuses and what ifs but im talking results :) You seem to be the flip side to me and my bias so I can see where your coming from. But make no mistake don't underestimate Microsoft as competition, not to mention they profit 3 billion every 3 months compared to Sony which hasn't seen a cent of profit in 4 years :). Thats all ill say on that.

But as for this comment.....here we go. 

Don't downplay Forza 2 and 3 getting 90+ cause they had no competition. There were multiplat sim games this gen, remember that. Forza get 90+ reviews purely on their own merits, especially Forza 4 when measured against GT5 :)

Actually.......Forza 1 released a few months after GT4.....and outscored it on metacritic but due to GT being an established franchise and Forza being a new IP, nobody really took notice. Who would have thought Forza would come such a long way since then. 

Well sir, about your PS3 hard to develop for comment, it is a known fact that many 3rd party developers had trouble with it, even in 2010 with games like Bayonetta. What you say about 1st party studios not having to worry about 360 versions is true.......but 3rd party studios make up for 90+ % of PS3 and 360s software library. Sony made a bonehead move making PS3 architecture different from 360s because they should have known that due to a head start the 3rd party industry would be using 360 for the lead platform, which many still do today. 

Lol ok someone could pick GT5 for the night/day and weather........or pick a game with 500 premium cars (kinda overshadows GT5's 200 lol), autovista, and oh just read the other post I wrote to some other guy on what Forza has.

Your last comment really just confuses me. Its pure math here. 3 Forzas this gen on 360 vs one full GT game on PS3. EACH Forza scored above 90.....GT 5 scored an 84. Its extremely obvious that Forza games have better overall packages and GT5 lacks certain video game qualities that Forza has in spades. 

If you make games at a weaker pace and professional reviewers don't like the one game they do make as much.......that isn't in any way "outdoing", thats just delusional spin on your part. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles.