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Forums - Politics Discussion - World War 2:Who was the right one?

 

Who was right in the long term?

Soviet Union 31 15.98%
 
Nazi Germany 53 27.32%
 
USA\UK 110 56.70%
 
Total:194
Marks on 11 November 2011

Clearly Japan was right. Rising Sun FTW.



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Kasz216 on 11 November 2011
snakenobi said:
Kasz216 said:

You don't consider the fact that eye witness testimony existed from both germans and the victims,

and that all of their doors and vents tested positive for high amounts of gas when they were captured proof?Why the heck else would they flood the gas chambers with poison?

You can have a house with the highest amount of ceiling in the world... smoke will still kill you.

you can be persuaded into believing all this research but you can't overlook basic facts that germans weren't that stupid to kill their own people

and yes the gas can be made to safely discharge

Heck aside from that, there is actual german paperwork from the time that talks about mobel gas chambers as well... in the back of vans used to kill people.

c'mon,now this is too much 

Aside from which, that's not even what most people in the holocaust died from.  It was mostly just... not being fed anything and disease. 

You should really note the 3 million number is actually considered a conservative number by WW2 experts... and that the number is likely higher.

I agreed whatever you said in the last post and took your word,i didn't disagree.

but to blindly believe this every idea supporting holocaust and just upping the number of holocaust victims is gonna help the claim

Let me clear what i mean to say is:

1)holocaust victims can be as high as you say or even more as you mentioned the number given by 'WW2 experts' but those aren't the only ones,other 'WW2 experts' also claim lower numbers.

2)and to rake argument and word supporting holocaust's high number is wrong

both arguments should be taken and judged and researched


Actually, no other WW2 experts don't claim the number is lower. 

at least not that 250,000 number you were tossing out.  Actual german documentation shows it way higher..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204358004577030131740812396.html

He would become chief prosecutor of a special German unit, the Einsatzgruppen, the mobile killing units operating on the Eastern front. He found the report of their daily accomplishments, which Germans meticulously recorded—a typical page of which is shown on screen, detailing how many Jewish children were killed, how many men and women had been murdered on a particular date. He counted. "When I got to over a million I stopped counting."


Keep in mind, that's > a million... just on the document jews.   With way way more uncounted in the book.... and not counting any of the actual starvations or other deaths not caused by the Einsatzgruppen... which includes all of the gas chamber deaths in concentration camps.  Since the gas chambers were actually what replaced the Einsatzgruppen. 

So the 250,000 number is debunked by documented german records before you even bother getting to the gas chambers.

As for "their own people".   The Germans didn't see the Jews as their own people.  That was kinda the whole point.  They were used as a scapegoat for the nation's ills.



kennyrester on 11 November 2011
snakenobi said:
kennyrester said:


Even as I was typing out that last post I was thinking, why I am i bothering?. Not going to stop me one more time though. First of all, clichéd is a word, look it up. You are DEFINITELY wrong about that one, I hope we can at least agree on that.

what?

i was talkign about the way in which you used it and relate to your conversation not in the existence of it

Anti-semitic is a specific term with a specific meaning. Say it to anyone and they'll immediately think anti-jewish.

i know that,as most people have no clue of what semite mean or where the word came up.they just go witht the popular thinking.

its like if you ask a normal person today about economics and golbal crisis,they wouldn't know much other than what the governement says of what experts say.

That's what it means, doesn't mattter what you think or what the origins are,that's the meaning now.

thats what you think it means

oh it matters  big time,the world doesn't go according to america or how it defines certain words so keep it to urself

 

I have literally never seen or heard anyone argue that before.

what does that have to do with what a word mean

 

you are using people's ignorance and their lack of knowledge as your defense........................ridiculous

 

As you said in your last two responses to me, look it up. Before you repeat yourself, I get that Semite does not specifically refer to Jews but anti-semite does. FACT.

no it doesn't

you have it all confused.i don't think you even have any idea about what a jew means

I wasn't trying to prove that I was right, I was trying to prove your holocaust denial was wrong.

i never denied it.

I mentioned both sides of story,i mentioned 10million number and also the other number.

 

I wasn't debating what constitutes genocide, not sure why you brought that up.

i brought it up as your definiton of the holocaust genocide is 6-8million jew deaths and anybody who investigates or question it,you label as a holocaust denier

you seem to be very confused

 

The definition of holocaust denial includes claiming a much smaller  number died than the generally accepted figure, which you did. Whether you're right or wrong about that (you're wrong, of course), you are a holocaust denier. FACT. 

so you're saying that even if i am right,you blindly go with the holocaust statement set by us government

hell you just said youself that you are blind and ignorant here by making those statements

A lot of the arguments in your post were against the wiki definitions and the use of wiki to find definitions in the first plac. Find me another reputable definition of anit-semitism that supports your argument please, then do the same for holocaust denial.

i don't need to as its common sense

for something to be 'anti',there has to be a meaning to it before

aka

there cannot be anti-semitism,without semitism meaning something



No, no, sick of this. I had a whole long post nearly typed out but I'm not going to get sucked in any further.
You're just being silly now, arguing semantics. The word anti-semitism is widely in use and has a specific meaning. So does the term holocaust denial. You might as well argue blue means red or that WW2 never happened at all.

And I'm not American, not sure what gave you that impression



disolitude on 11 November 2011

err...ummm.

so how about those mw3 day 1 sales?



Phobos on 11 November 2011
snakenobi said:

Nazi Germany:

They killed 10m jews and gypsies(very controversial number as no evidence and gas chambers weren't operational)


Nobody was right, because Hitler was financed by Wallstreet, Allies were financed by Wallstreet and Soviets were supported by USA financed by Wallstreet.

 

And about holocaust...me Im german so Im allowed to say Stalin was the best in the world and never killed anybody, but if I say Hitler didnt...no I dont continue, I dont want to go to prison, because there is no free speach on one very specific topic in my country.

And dont understand me wrong - this is not about believing or not believing...

And Hitler was just a Wallstreet-bitch...but nobody is asking where Hitler get the money from 1923 - 1933, and no, only few came from people like Thyssen and all the ohter tycoons.

Every war is about making cash and to get loos of all the young angry men and to distract the people from domestically problems.

And the people are playing this game...zzz

Not more, not less.



 

 

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value..."

 

Alan Greenspan, 1967

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snakenobi on 11 November 2011

kowenicki said:
terrible thread, insulting and tastless.

perfect kowen,criticizing.


US/UK? should be a lot more countries in that category for a start.

i didn't add others,there were only UK and USA as the major countries left


Where is japan... perhaps lump them in with the Nazi germany side... ?

I forgot to add japan with nazi germany,vgc poll editing editing wipes out the poll numbers





snakenobi on 11 November 2011
Phobos said:


Nobody was right, because Hitler was financed by Wallstreet, Allies were financed by Wallstreet and Soviets were supported by USA financed by Wallstreet.

 

And about holocaust...me Im german so Im allowed to say Stalin was the best in the world and never killed anybody, but if I say Hitler didnt...no I dont continue, I dont want to go to prison, because there is no free speach on one very specific topic in my country.

And dont understand me wrong - this is not about believing or not believing...

And Hitler was just a Wallstreet-bitch...but nobody is asking where Hitler get the money from 1923 - 1933, and no, only few came from people like Thyssen and all the ohter tycoons.

Every war is about making cash and to get loos of all the young angry men and to distract the people from domestically problems.

And the people are playing this game...zzz

Not more, not less.

if only there were more people that had so much knowledge,the world would be such a nice place



snakenobi on 11 November 2011
Kasz216 said


Actually, no other WW2 experts don't claim the number is lower. 

at least not that 250,000 number you were tossing out.  Actual german documentation shows it way higher..

are there a few people that are called 'WW2 experts'? - anybody that has fully resarched the hell out of WW2 is an expert.you denying that no one has lower numbers that what you claim is being bias

and when the hell did i toss out 250k number?at first i though you were about debating facts but as our conversation has gone you have actually taken anything that supports high holocaust number without even considering the lower number research

german documentary...........?

go research a bit,not just follow a documentary to justify your claims.media is filled with misinformation

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204358004577030131740812396.html

He would become chief prosecutor of a special German unit, the Einsatzgruppen, the mobile killing units operating on the Eastern front. He found the report of their daily accomplishments, which Germans meticulously recorded—a typical page of which is shown on screen, detailing how many Jewish children were killed, how many men and women had been murdered on a particular date. He counted. "When I got to over a million I stopped counting."

alrite this i can agree with

i don't know why you continued debating when i told you in the previous posts that i agreed and am taking your word on it for now


Keep in mind, that's > a million... just on the document jews.   With way way more uncounted in the book.... and not counting any of the actual starvations or other deaths not caused by the Einsatzgruppen... which includes all of the gas chamber deaths in concentration camps.  Since the gas chambers were actually what replaced the Einsatzgruppen. 

So the 250,000 number is debunked by documented german records before you even bother getting to the gas chambers.

where the hell did you get that number and why are you discussing in here?

As for "their own people".   The Germans didn't see the Jews as their own people.  That was kinda the whole point.  They were used as a scapegoat for the nation's ills.

how the hell did you get the idea that by 'their own people' i meant were jew,you are so confused about what we are even debating about?





snakenobi on 11 November 2011
kennyrester said:

No, no, sick of this. I had a whole long post nearly typed out but I'm not going to get sucked in any further.

if only you stopped whining and debated on common sense,facts,etc

You're just being silly now, arguing semantics. The word anti-semitism is widely in use and has a specific meaning.

you defending the words meaning by it being widely used is where you fails

you are saying that you are in favor of ignorance,propaganda,people with lack of knowledge and that people effected by these things make a thing popular then its legit................can't say much to that

So does the term holocaust denial. You might as well argue blue means red or that WW2 never happened at all.

i never argued blue means red or WW2 never happened

but continue to argue that you are in full support of dum soceity,government taking voer liberty and definging how people live their lives and ignorance is your way of life and that it is the right way

stop playing with words as your words are very weak and have no basis

And I'm not American, not sure what gave you that impression

that fact that you licking US government's definition of everything as the 'right' thing to do gave me the impression

yeah your way IRAQ wars,the contuiniung USA banking and financial crisis,the coming IRAN invasion that US government so eargely want to join is the right thing..................................meh

yeah they have been so right that people are just revolting against them for fun


bonkers555 on 11 November 2011
Marks said:
Clearly Japan was right. Rising Sun FTW.


You are a fuckin idiot! Japanese are equally evil with the Nazi. Go read the rape of Nanking.



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