Right now I support Ron Paul & Gary Johnson.
I've been reading up on Herman Cain lately but I need to find out more about him before I can support him.
I don't really know much about Perry or Romney, they seem like more dime a dozen republicans that won't change anything. I want Paul because he'll cut ridiculous spending, promote smaller governments with less interference, and cut taxes.
EA puts their simcity games on $9.99. LOL.
http://store.origin.com/store/ea/search/?keywords=simcity
Using amateurish numbers.... I'd work the plan like this.
Corporate Tax Rate of 18%. at 7.79%
progressive almost no deduction tax rate aiming for effective rates of
7%/13.5%/17.5%/20%/27%. (Which sounds like tax increases until you take into account all the other taxes people will no longer pay.)
based on quintile projections, with a law that states that one can't be raised without the other which would bring in about 54% of net revenue.
Bringing us up to 61.79% of needed revenue.
Which means if you go by the only 3 taxes plan... the sales tax would only be responsible for 38.21% of the taxes.
Making a National Sales tax about ~5%. It seems much more palatable.
| Machina said: There's a certain annoying inevitibility about Romney winning it, what with the way the race is being covered and the polling that's coming out right now. He's just so... ergh. |
true. the way its looking right now in the current state Romney and Cain are at the top and Perry and Gingrich keep swapping for 3rd in the polls with Paul not too far behind them.
Romney has a ton of money to run a campaign and so it will be hard to defeat him. Perry has gained a lot of money but his campaign appears to be imploding after terrible debates which make him look bad. The problem Cain has is that he does not have a lot of campain money, but he is really growing in popularity.
I think right now the base of the party is trying to looks for someone that can contest Romney. Romney seems to appear to more moderate establishment types. Cain and Paul seem to appeal to the non "establishment" group of the party that hate the spending that is going on right now in government.
| Machina said: There's a certain annoying inevitibility about Romney winning it, what with the way the race is being covered and the polling that's coming out right now. He's just so... ergh. |
bland centrality has its own appeal. If you gun for the middle you end up with someone who perhaps lacks conviction but is appealing to middle-of-the-road voters, and hey, what are the Republicans going to do if they're not jazzed about Romney, vote Obama?
Fish-out-of-water candidates, like a Massachusetts Republican like Romney or, say, an Arkansas Democrat like Bill Clinton, is a safe bet for any party if they don't have a candidate with real political clout who can both appeal to the base and play with their fame, clout, or symbolic potential. McCain had clout, Obama had symbolic potential
Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.
Kasz216 said:
Why 9-9-9 though? It doesn't really make any sense other then the fact that it sounds better then another split. The current Effective US corporate Tax rate is 27.7% Versus a europeon average of 22.6% and a world wide average of 19.5% http://www.scribd.com/doc/52966788/Effective-Tax-Rate-Study Even trying to lure companies to relocate here due to tax rate, something like 16% should be more then satisfactory. Heck even 20 would well put us on more then even ground with other countries. 9% just seems pointlessly low. As it is, the current 27.7% brings in about 12% of our revenue, and 9-9-9 is supposed to bring in the same amount of money. Meaning the coproate tax would only bring in ~4% under the new plan.
Now a 9% Income tax.... that's inline with what the effective tax rate for a person in the lowest quintile was in the 80's and early 90's. Interesting actually, if you look at the effective tax rates now vs 1992, every group has seen MASSIVE tax cuts EXCEPT the highest quintile, though anyway... The average effective Income tax in 2006 was 14.4% http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2009/effective_rates.pdf
So when it comes to revenue we're counting on Sales tax to bring in 68% of the federal budget. Seems like way too much to me and that it would lead the government to focus even harder on stimulating consumption. |
One big note on the corporate tax rate is how it is taxed currently vs. the way it would be under 9-9-9.
Right now, corporations deduct labor costs from their prevailing rates. Under Herman's plan, that is removed. Since labor costs are about 50% of most businesses, the actual drop in effective tax rates is closer to 18% instead of 9%.... Since businesses were already getting deductions.
The way 9/9/9 has been calculated generally has stated that the sales tax and flat tax would bring in about $900 billion each, with the corporate tax bringing in about $150 billion... Equating to total revenues of $2 trillion USD. That is generally similar to what we bring in now in regards to income, FICA and corporate taxes. Of course, the beauty is that there are very few deductions - only charities and being in poverty allow any exemptions.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
| Allfreedom99 said: Here are my thoughts on 999 and tell me if you see the same. I should read more into it but so far I do like a lot of the components. Many of the people against it say that taxes on the lower and middle class would actually be raised. In a sense I guess you would have to say thats true, but it gets all people paying taxes and having a skin in the game. We all know the a Whopping 47% of Amercians do not pay any federal income tax. That means almost half are not contributing. Having a sales tax ensures a more fair system. Now tell me your thoughts but here is my thinking on his plan. The corporate tax rate is at 35% currently. Under this plan it would drop to 9%. Now we all know that corporations never just "eat" the cost of the corporate tax burden. They pass that extra expense along to consumers to pay which causes the prices of goods and services to go up, correct? So in essense most of the corporate tax burden gets paid by consumers? isn't that fair to say? ...Now that being the case if the corporate tax burden was dropped to 9% that would be a huge increase in available cash to business which would then allow them to expand, hire workers, and drop prices of goods and services. Therefore, while lower income earners may be now paying more for taxes the overall living cost will become lower for them, because the prices of all goods and services will theoretically drop substantially. This means that under Cain's 999 plan wouldn't it actually help lower income earners due to the drop in prices of goods and services that consumers want, need, and desire? |
As far as I've seen in regards to statistical analysis, corporations and businesses eat about 25% of their cost of good sold through taxes and compliance (e.g. tax compliance through HR, as well as their share of FICA, ect). That 25% would drop to about 10% under Cain's plan. Therefore, the net benefit would indeed be a 15% drop in cost of goods, with a 9% tax tacked on at the point of sale.
A lot of people argue against the sales tax, but the reality is, its the most broad based tax you are going to get, and will hit every area of society that seeks to cheat the system, because even under-the-table workers must buy goods once in awhile.
Generally speaking, though, the thing that will help the poor with will be JOBS. If median incomes rise without inflation, then the poor will invariably benefit the most. 9/9/9 is designed to bring jobs back, and get capitalists investing in the system, which creates bigger and better jobs. Throw in Cain's statements about the Chilean defined benefit plan which would take pension monies and invest in corporate bonds, stocks and other such things, and you essentially have a $10 trillion dollar jobs bill over the next 10 years.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
Cain seems to be demolishing the competition in the debates, especially calling out the other candidates stupidity or attempts to obfuscate the issues.
Progressive taxes are evil incarnate. If anything the poor should be taxed at higher rates than the rich so that they can contribute their fair share. Sales tax is the fairest possible tax. Every person can decide how much in taxes they want to pay.
mrstickball said:
Right now, corporations deduct labor costs from their prevailing rates. Under Herman's plan, that is removed. Since labor costs are about 50% of most businesses, the actual drop in effective tax rates is closer to 18% instead of 9%.... Since businesses were already getting deductions. The way 9/9/9 has been calculated generally has stated that the sales tax and flat tax would bring in about $900 billion each, with the corporate tax bringing in about $150 billion... Equating to total revenues of $2 trillion USD. That is generally similar to what we bring in now in regards to income, FICA and corporate taxes. Of course, the beauty is that there are very few deductions - only charities and being in poverty allow any exemptions. |
I feel like that would of already been covered under the "Effective tax rate".
If I ever get the time like i had back when i was unemployed i'll have to comb through his numbers.
Kasz216 said:
I feel like that would of already been covered under the "Effective tax rate". If I ever get the time like i had back when i was unemployed i'll have to comb through his numbers. |
The issue is with how effective tax rate is calculated. Effective tax rate (from my understanding.... I'm head of an LLC not a chapter S-corp so I don't know as much as a CFO would) among corporations would be calculated differently under Herman's plan, which would likely drop the effective tax rate by 50% and not 75% as it would if it dropped from 27% to 9%.
This is from Cain's site:
.________________
________________
I think the issue is that effective tax rates aren't gross income less all purchases from other US businesseses.... Its usually gross income less labor costs and purchases.
Back from the dead, I'm afraid.
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