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Forums - Politics - Wall Street Protests

richardhutnik on 05 November 2011
badgenome said:
Raze said:
badgenome said:
As civil and heartening as that was, "the people's mic" remains the stupidest fucking thing I've seen in my entire life.


Now now, you can't take that title away from Sarah Palin. Or the Jersey Shore. Or George Bush Jr. Or Emo music.

If you combined all that shit, plus the video in the OP, plus every Sony worship thread made by Marco, it'd still be slightly dumber.

Be thankful that all of the above don't use the people's mic, or you definitely would have a strong case for what you said. I think if experiments were done to broadcast stupidity over the people's mic, you would see a collective IQ drop.  I do say this, fully knowing that I leave open a shot at people involved with the Occupy movement.  Let's see who falls into that monkey trap and can't let go to get out of it.



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Kasz216 on 05 November 2011
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

If an industry is requiring people to take out loans that are increasingly getting to be the size of a mortgage, what does one expect the industry to do?

Why are all the protests directed at industry, and not a single one is aimed at the universities who charge an exorbitant amount for a degree of questionable value?

Because they aren't so much mad that they were lied to as they are mad that the lie isn't true.

It would be like being told Santa Claus isn't real as a kid, and not being mad or upset at your parents for lying but being mad at the Macy's Santa for not shelling out for gifts for you.

I'm not even sure it's a "Lie" though.

All I was ever told about college is that if you get a degree is SOMETHING then you are much more likely to get a job.

Which is true, look at the comparative unemployment rates.

If anything I think i'd blame it more on "immortality" syndrome.  I forget what it's really called, but in general the belief that all bad things happen to other people and everything will work out for you because you view yourself as special.

It's like when people who love music and start a band complain because the "music industry is keeping them down and letting no talent hacks make music."


The lies are like this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214426/20110915/unemployment-jobs-economy-college-graduate.htm

The shorthand report over and over and over again is that a B.S degree will make you do better.  It doesn't differentiate between what degree either.   And while what you can say is 100% true, it doesn't mean there aren't other problems also contributing to things.  And yes, people want the lie to be true, because it is comforting to know that it is true.


BS degrees are a lot more then 5% of the population, so i'd say that a BS degree actually does help you to a degree getting employment.

As was stated in this thread, the TYPE of BS degree matters.  And that is what I was trying to address here.  To do a blanket, "get any BS degree" is folly.  It ends up deceiving.

Ok, i think we've got a difference in definiton here.

By BS degree i mean Bull Shit Degree.

Even having a Degree in something as stupid as puppetry will help you find a job.  Not a good job, but it does show the ability to finish soemthing.

As can be seen by the fact that unemployment by those with college degrees is far lower then those without them despite so many jobs being worthless.



Kasz216 on 05 November 2011
HappySqurriel said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

If an industry is requiring people to take out loans that are increasingly getting to be the size of a mortgage, what does one expect the industry to do?

Why are all the protests directed at industry, and not a single one is aimed at the universities who charge an exorbitant amount for a degree of questionable value?

Because they aren't so much mad that they were lied to as they are mad that the lie isn't true.

It would be like being told Santa Claus isn't real as a kid, and not being mad or upset at your parents for lying but being mad at the Macy's Santa for not shelling out for gifts for you.

I'm not even sure it's a "Lie" though.

All I was ever told about college is that if you get a degree is SOMETHING then you are much more likely to get a job.

Which is true, look at the comparative unemployment rates.

If anything I think i'd blame it more on "immortality" syndrome.  I forget what it's really called, but in general the belief that all bad things happen to other people and everything will work out for you because you view yourself as special.

It's like when people who love music and start a band complain because the "music industry is keeping them down and letting no talent hacks make music."


The lies are like this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214426/20110915/unemployment-jobs-economy-college-graduate.htm

The shorthand report over and over and over again is that a B.S degree will make you do better.  It doesn't differentiate between what degree either.   And while what you can say is 100% true, it doesn't mean there aren't other problems also contributing to things.  And yes, people want the lie to be true, because it is comforting to know that it is true.


BS degrees are a lot more then 5% of the population, so i'd say that a BS degree actually does help you to a degree getting employment.

But being employeed and having a career that makes meaningful use of your (expensive) degree are two very different things. With the number of people I've met with Degrees (often Masters and PHDs) in the humanities and social sciences who are working as baristas or clerks in book stores, it has become clear that there is a lot of degrees where the majority of students are substantially worse off for having gone to university because they're earning (about) as much as a high-school graduate does but have tens of thousands of dollars of debt and lost several years of work experience.

I'm not saying they're not worse off, i'm saying they've got jobs.

What I've always heard was said about college was, that having a degree in anything helps your resume by showing that you can finish something.

That's actually true. 

The loss of money and expeirence is only true if your wasting your own money and not working while persueing a degree that is likely to be uselss.

If your funding it ourself by going to an affordable state college while working a job...

that's a totally different situation.



richardhutnik on 05 November 2011
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

If an industry is requiring people to take out loans that are increasingly getting to be the size of a mortgage, what does one expect the industry to do?

Why are all the protests directed at industry, and not a single one is aimed at the universities who charge an exorbitant amount for a degree of questionable value?

Because they aren't so much mad that they were lied to as they are mad that the lie isn't true.

It would be like being told Santa Claus isn't real as a kid, and not being mad or upset at your parents for lying but being mad at the Macy's Santa for not shelling out for gifts for you.

I'm not even sure it's a "Lie" though.

All I was ever told about college is that if you get a degree is SOMETHING then you are much more likely to get a job.

Which is true, look at the comparative unemployment rates.

If anything I think i'd blame it more on "immortality" syndrome.  I forget what it's really called, but in general the belief that all bad things happen to other people and everything will work out for you because you view yourself as special.

It's like when people who love music and start a band complain because the "music industry is keeping them down and letting no talent hacks make music."


The lies are like this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214426/20110915/unemployment-jobs-economy-college-graduate.htm

The shorthand report over and over and over again is that a B.S degree will make you do better.  It doesn't differentiate between what degree either.   And while what you can say is 100% true, it doesn't mean there aren't other problems also contributing to things.  And yes, people want the lie to be true, because it is comforting to know that it is true.


BS degrees are a lot more then 5% of the population, so i'd say that a BS degree actually does help you to a degree getting employment.

As was stated in this thread, the TYPE of BS degree matters.  And that is what I was trying to address here.  To do a blanket, "get any BS degree" is folly.  It ends up deceiving.

Ok, i think we've got a difference in definiton here.

By BS degree i mean Bull Shit Degree.

Even having a Degree in something as stupid as puppetry will help you find a job.  Not a good job, but it does show the ability to finish soemthing.

As can be seen by the fact that unemployment by those with college degrees is far lower then those without them despite so many jobs being worthless.

On this note, let's look at a systemic problem here.  If the end result is that to get ANY job, ANY B.S degree is going to be required, and to do this, no matter how low the job pays, individuals need to pile on more and more personal debt, then the system is going to break.  I would stand here to both allow bankruptcy for student loans and for the government to get out of insuring student loans.  I would then end up saying, if need be, two additional years of vocational training should be added into the school system (if the public school system should remain).  In short, if a college degree is not needed to actually do the work, it should be stripped out of the system, and this B.S arms race to financial doom be stopped.



Kasz216 on 05 November 2011
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
richardhutnik said:

If an industry is requiring people to take out loans that are increasingly getting to be the size of a mortgage, what does one expect the industry to do?

Why are all the protests directed at industry, and not a single one is aimed at the universities who charge an exorbitant amount for a degree of questionable value?

Because they aren't so much mad that they were lied to as they are mad that the lie isn't true.

It would be like being told Santa Claus isn't real as a kid, and not being mad or upset at your parents for lying but being mad at the Macy's Santa for not shelling out for gifts for you.

I'm not even sure it's a "Lie" though.

All I was ever told about college is that if you get a degree is SOMETHING then you are much more likely to get a job.

Which is true, look at the comparative unemployment rates.

If anything I think i'd blame it more on "immortality" syndrome.  I forget what it's really called, but in general the belief that all bad things happen to other people and everything will work out for you because you view yourself as special.

It's like when people who love music and start a band complain because the "music industry is keeping them down and letting no talent hacks make music."


The lies are like this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214426/20110915/unemployment-jobs-economy-college-graduate.htm

The shorthand report over and over and over again is that a B.S degree will make you do better.  It doesn't differentiate between what degree either.   And while what you can say is 100% true, it doesn't mean there aren't other problems also contributing to things.  And yes, people want the lie to be true, because it is comforting to know that it is true.


BS degrees are a lot more then 5% of the population, so i'd say that a BS degree actually does help you to a degree getting employment.

As was stated in this thread, the TYPE of BS degree matters.  And that is what I was trying to address here.  To do a blanket, "get any BS degree" is folly.  It ends up deceiving.

Ok, i think we've got a difference in definiton here.

By BS degree i mean Bull Shit Degree.

Even having a Degree in something as stupid as puppetry will help you find a job.  Not a good job, but it does show the ability to finish soemthing.

As can be seen by the fact that unemployment by those with college degrees is far lower then those without them despite so many jobs being worthless.

On this note, let's look at a systemic problem here.  If the end result is that to get ANY job, ANY B.S degree is going to be required, and to do this, no matter how low the job pays, individuals need to pile on more and more personal debt, then the system is going to break.  I would stand here to both allow bankruptcy for student loans and for the government to get out of insuring student loans.  I would then end up saying, if need be, two additional years of vocational training should be added into the school system (if the public school system should remain).  In short, if a college degree is not needed to actually do the work, it should be stripped out of the system, and this B.S arms race to financial doom be stopped.

That's just a gross exageration however.

Unemployment with a bachelors college Degree is 4.4%

Unemployment without a HIGHSCHOOL degree is 13.8%.   That's hardly "No chance to get a job."

Higschool Graduation is like 9.4% and "Some college" is 8.3% which ranges anywhere from 1 semseter to a 2-year degree.


So college gives you a 5% better chance to get a job.  Not exactly a "MUST HAVE" but it does help.



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HappySqurriel on 05 November 2011
Kasz216 said:

That's just a gross exageration however.

Unemployment with a bachelors college Degree is 4.4%

Unemployment without a HIGHSCHOOL degree is 13.8%.   That's hardly "No chance to get a job."

Higschool Graduation is like 9.4% and "Some college" is 8.3% which ranges anywhere from 1 semseter to a 2-year degree.


So college gives you a 5% better chance to get a job.  Not exactly a "MUST HAVE" but it does help.


It is actually much more important to employeers than you're considering:

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/recession-college-graduates.html

On the flip side, look at the employment-population ratio:

  • Less than a high school diploma: 40.8%
  • High school graduate, no college: 55.4%
  • Some college or associate degree: 64.1%
  • Bachelor’s degree or higher: 72.7%

 



richardhutnik on 05 November 2011
HappySqurriel said:
Kasz216 said:

That's just a gross exageration however.

Unemployment with a bachelors college Degree is 4.4%

Unemployment without a HIGHSCHOOL degree is 13.8%.   That's hardly "No chance to get a job."

Higschool Graduation is like 9.4% and "Some college" is 8.3% which ranges anywhere from 1 semseter to a 2-year degree.


So college gives you a 5% better chance to get a job.  Not exactly a "MUST HAVE" but it does help.


It is actually much more important to employeers than you're considering:

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/recession-college-graduates.html

On the flip side, look at the employment-population ratio:

  • Less than a high school diploma: 40.8%
  • High school graduate, no college: 55.4%
  • Some college or associate degree: 64.1%
  • Bachelor’s degree or higher: 72.7%

 

So, what would the unemployment rate be for some who didn't go to college, but actually went to a technical school, and got trained in things that people demand?

I will end up posting this video, and people can disagree with it:



richardhutnik on 05 November 2011

And here is a shorter video on the same subject:



richardhutnik on 05 November 2011

More on the subject. 85% of college graduates moving back to live with their parents:
http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2010/10/17/85-percent-of-college-graduates-move-back-into-their-parents-home/

Here is another article from 2008, pointing out back then that nearly 70% of entry-level jobs into the job market don't need any college education:

http://www.issues.org/24.4/realnumbers.html

 

People are free to point out more.  That time point marked the start of the economic meltdown.  If anyone wants to point to anything showing anything radically different, feel free to.



Kasz216 on 05 November 2011
HappySqurriel said:
Kasz216 said:

That's just a gross exageration however.

Unemployment with a bachelors college Degree is 4.4%

Unemployment without a HIGHSCHOOL degree is 13.8%.   That's hardly "No chance to get a job."

Higschool Graduation is like 9.4% and "Some college" is 8.3% which ranges anywhere from 1 semseter to a 2-year degree.


So college gives you a 5% better chance to get a job.  Not exactly a "MUST HAVE" but it does help.


It is actually much more important to employeers than you're considering:

http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/recession-college-graduates.html

On the flip side, look at the employment-population ratio:

  • Less than a high school diploma: 40.8%
  • High school graduate, no college: 55.4%
  • Some college or associate degree: 64.1%
  • Bachelor’s degree or higher: 72.7%

 

I don't know...

I mean, I'd think many more people in the first two groups are less likely to have planned on having careers.  IE Homemakers and the like.