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Forums - Sony Discussion - What I would like to see from Warner's move, to push blu-ray to mainstream.

makingmusic476 said:

Excellent points, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, I take issue with some of your information concerning HD DVD:

HD DVD's HDi isn't really all that programmable. It was designed more for ease of use than flexibility. It's basically a toolset designed by MS to allow studios to use certain feature with some creativity for interactivity on HD DVDs. BD-Java, however, is... well, it's java. It's a programming language, and studios can use to create whatever the hell they want on a Blu-Ray disc.

Look at it this way, HDi is like a map editor in any RTS game. You can do some pretty cool stuff with it, and it's real easy to use, but everything is predefined, and you are ultimately limited by what is available in the editor. BD-J, in comparison, is a complete language. Instead of having the editor already right there in front of you, you use the language to create your own game/editor. Sure, at first things will take much longer to do than with HDi, as you have to create everything from scratch, but you can choose to go in any direction you want, make any editor you want, and once your editor has been created, you can reuse that editor for every release after that, and continue to change it as you see fit. At first BD-J is much harder to work with, but the possibilities are much more open than HDi.

Also, Amir, the MS insider from AVS/HDD, said that the TL51 discs were created merely to say, "we can do that, if we need to," and will most likely never be used. Check out these statements from a thread on HDD (post 1, post 2):

amirm said:
enigma said:
amirm said:

TL-51 is an advancement for HD DVD to show that the format scales. But the premise of HD DVD does not depend on it. It never has. DL-34 may get productized though and the yields for that won't be different than HD DVD-30. HD DVD has done what it needed to do to prove its case: dual layer with combo produced, the market and readily manufacturable. That's it.
So there are no plans to use it for movies then ?
As of two months ago, no. And I had stated that repeatedly on AVS.


I did NOT write that it was "all that programmable". I wrote just that it's more programmable than DVD.

And what's more imporant, what can be done, or what is done? If the HDi has limits, it matters more that the limits are pushed, as it will likely lead to more things that DVD can't do, especially if they engage mainstream consumers.

Since the Java can do more, it does mean Java can do the same. The point is THAT they are done, not how far. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network
makingmusic476 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
BTW, it just occurred to me about what material to release. Since sports and nature documentaries get the most HD ratings, more of those should be released. Planet Earth has some of the best legs in either format, so it shows there is a market for these in HD.

Anything that is visually appealing, really. The Lord of the Rings? Star Wars? Hell yes. Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail? Um...what's the point?


It's not quite anything that is visually appealing. Nature shows and sports can be filmes specifically for HD, while films can't, not yet. So  no, those films are not likely to push their sales in HD based on visual appeal alone.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

LordTheNightKnight said:
makingmusic476 said:

Excellent points, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, I take issue with some of your information concerning HD DVD:

HD DVD's HDi isn't really all that programmable. It was designed more for ease of use than flexibility. It's basically a toolset designed by MS to allow studios to use certain feature with some creativity for interactivity on HD DVDs. BD-Java, however, is... well, it's java. It's a programming language, and studios can use to create whatever the hell they want on a Blu-Ray disc.

Look at it this way, HDi is like a map editor in any RTS game. You can do some pretty cool stuff with it, and it's real easy to use, but everything is predefined, and you are ultimately limited by what is available in the editor. BD-J, in comparison, is a complete language. Instead of having the editor already right there in front of you, you use the language to create your own game/editor. Sure, at first things will take much longer to do than with HDi, as you have to create everything from scratch, but you can choose to go in any direction you want, make any editor you want, and once your editor has been created, you can reuse that editor for every release after that, and continue to change it as you see fit. At first BD-J is much harder to work with, but the possibilities are much more open than HDi.

Also, Amir, the MS insider from AVS/HDD, said that the TL51 discs were created merely to say, "we can do that, if we need to," and will most likely never be used. Check out these statements from a thread on HDD (post 1, post 2):

amirm said:
enigma said:
amirm said:

TL-51 is an advancement for HD DVD to show that the format scales. But the premise of HD DVD does not depend on it. It never has. DL-34 may get productized though and the yields for that won't be different than HD DVD-30. HD DVD has done what it needed to do to prove its case: dual layer with combo produced, the market and readily manufacturable. That's it.
So there are no plans to use it for movies then ?
As of two months ago, no. And I had stated that repeatedly on AVS.


I did NOT write that it was "all that programmable". I wrote just that it's more programmable than DVD.

And what's more imporant, what can be done, or what is done? If the HDi has limits, it matters more that the limits are pushed, as it will likely lead to more things that DVD can't do, especially if they engage mainstream consumers.

Since the Java can do more, it does mean Java can do the same. The point is THAT they are done, not how far.

Actually, you wrote that, "both formats are programmable, unlike DVD," which implies that you can program both to do w/e, where as with DVD you are stuck with a pretty basic toolset.  HD DVD may have a more advanced toolset than DVD, but it is still just a toolset, nonetheless, and not a complete programming language.

We're excellent at butting heads, aren't we? :P 



LordTheNightKnight said:
makingmusic476 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
BTW, it just occurred to me about what material to release. Since sports and nature documentaries get the most HD ratings, more of those should be released. Planet Earth has some of the best legs in either format, so it shows there is a market for these in HD.

Anything that is visually appealing, really. The Lord of the Rings? Star Wars? Hell yes. Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail? Um...what's the point?


It's not quite anything that is visually appealing. Nature shows and sports can be filmes specifically for HD, while films can't, not yet. So no, those films are not likely to push their sales in HD based on visual appeal alone.


 All films are filmed in analog, and .35nm film has a theoretical pixel count in the millions, if it were to be scanned and converted into digital. Most films are filmed in much much higher than HD.

 



makingmusic476 said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
makingmusic476 said:

Excellent points, and I agree wholeheartedly. However, I take issue with some of your information concerning HD DVD:

HD DVD's HDi isn't really all that programmable. It was designed more for ease of use than flexibility. It's basically a toolset designed by MS to allow studios to use certain feature with some creativity for interactivity on HD DVDs. BD-Java, however, is... well, it's java. It's a programming language, and studios can use to create whatever the hell they want on a Blu-Ray disc.

Look at it this way, HDi is like a map editor in any RTS game. You can do some pretty cool stuff with it, and it's real easy to use, but everything is predefined, and you are ultimately limited by what is available in the editor. BD-J, in comparison, is a complete language. Instead of having the editor already right there in front of you, you use the language to create your own game/editor. Sure, at first things will take much longer to do than with HDi, as you have to create everything from scratch, but you can choose to go in any direction you want, make any editor you want, and once your editor has been created, you can reuse that editor for every release after that, and continue to change it as you see fit. At first BD-J is much harder to work with, but the possibilities are much more open than HDi.

Also, Amir, the MS insider from AVS/HDD, said that the TL51 discs were created merely to say, "we can do that, if we need to," and will most likely never be used. Check out these statements from a thread on HDD (post 1, post 2):

amirm said:
enigma said:
amirm said:

TL-51 is an advancement for HD DVD to show that the format scales. But the premise of HD DVD does not depend on it. It never has. DL-34 may get productized though and the yields for that won't be different than HD DVD-30. HD DVD has done what it needed to do to prove its case: dual layer with combo produced, the market and readily manufacturable. That's it.
So there are no plans to use it for movies then ?
As of two months ago, no. And I had stated that repeatedly on AVS.


I did NOT write that it was "all that programmable". I wrote just that it's more programmable than DVD.

And what's more imporant, what can be done, or what is done? If the HDi has limits, it matters more that the limits are pushed, as it will likely lead to more things that DVD can't do, especially if they engage mainstream consumers.

Since the Java can do more, it does mean Java can do the same. The point is THAT they are done, not how far.

Actually, you wrote that, "both formats are programmable, unlike DVD," which implies that you can program both to do w/e, where as with DVD you are stuck with a pretty basic toolset. HD DVD may have a more advanced toolset than DVD, but it is still just a toolset, nonetheless, and not a complete programming language.

We're excellent at butting heads, aren't we? :P


1. Programmable is not the same as a programming language. It's not even splitting hairs, as that is not my point.

2. I didn't mean either format could be programmed to do whatever although that likely did come across in my wording. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network

Btw, to add a little humor to these debates, check out this screen from the upcoming Blu-Ray release of Independence Day. The capture may be a bit soft (jpeg, bleh), but you can still clearly see that the Empire State building model they used doesn't even have window panes, lol!



I'm sorry but HD movies on discs won't tak eoff for years. You know why? Cuase stupids are putting out SHIT movies. If they brought out CLASSIC movies all the older generation would go for the format much quicker if they could be show the picutre difference. Now this probably hasn't happend as most older movies will need some remastering done to them. However that is when HD discs will start selling better.

Also huge price drops on discs and hardware.


Hell people use to buy VHS tapes for 8year after DVD come out. I myself will wait for more imporved models of stand alone player. I made that mistake with dvd players I baught one for shitloads when it come out and its features are limited to dvd of one region and VCD lol. No mp3 no xvid no jpg etcc..

So what I'm saying is alot of peopel probably did the same and are now being more careful in the first few years before they make a purchase to the next level.



Cobretti said:
I'm sorry but HD movies on discs won't tak eoff for years. You know why? Cuase stupids are putting out SHIT movies. If they brought out CLASSIC movies all the older generation would go for the format much quicker if they could be show the picutre difference. Now this probably hasn't happend as most older movies will need some remastering done to them. However that is when HD discs will start selling better.

Also huge price drops on discs and hardware.


Hell people use to buy VHS tapes for 8year after DVD come out. I myself will wait for more imporved models of stand alone player. I made that mistake with dvd players I baught one for shitloads when it come out and its features are limited to dvd of one region and VCD lol. No mp3 no xvid no jpg etcc..

So what I'm saying is alot of peopel probably did the same and are now being more careful in the first few years before they make a purchase to the next level.

Blade Runner, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Spartacus aren't classics?

The main reason so few catalogs have been released so far is because they've been selling like shit compared to newer titles.



People who love classic movies spent $75 on their Criterion edition DVDs of said movies. They don't want to pay for them again.

It's probably better if they focus on the newer, more visually striking films to release in HD; these titles grab more attention, and then when format acceptance is stronger, catalog title sales will improve. However, studios also need to start putting more work into their HD catalog releases and quit sourcing them from outdated masters. Man, that pisses me off.



Hates Nomura.

Tagged: GooseGaws - <--- Has better taste in games than you.

makingmusic476 said:
Cobretti said:
I'm sorry but HD movies on discs won't tak eoff for years. You know why? Cuase stupids are putting out SHIT movies. If they brought out CLASSIC movies all the older generation would go for the format much quicker if they could be show the picutre difference. Now this probably hasn't happend as most older movies will need some remastering done to them. However that is when HD discs will start selling better.

Also huge price drops on discs and hardware.


Hell people use to buy VHS tapes for 8year after DVD come out. I myself will wait for more imporved models of stand alone player. I made that mistake with dvd players I baught one for shitloads when it come out and its features are limited to dvd of one region and VCD lol. No mp3 no xvid no jpg etcc..

So what I'm saying is alot of peopel probably did the same and are now being more careful in the first few years before they make a purchase to the next level.

Blade Runner, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Spartacus aren't classics?

The main reason so few catalogs have been released so far is because they've been selling like shit compared to newer titles.


haha not all them would see those as classic. I would. You don't know what older people (in their 40s and 50s) like do you ?

 

war movies

clint eastwood movies

charles bronson

steve mcqueen

john wayne

sean connory

harrison ford

arnie

stallone

etc.... those kind of actors and I mean in their earlier years.