By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - Xbox 360 Vs. Playstation 3 2012 - *February* Update

Alby_da_Wolf on 04 January 2012
Adinnieken said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
thismeintiel said:
ZaneWane said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Losses of Sony division that makes, amongst other things, PS3, aren't due to PS3 price cut, but to TVs losses and expensive acquisitions.

what would u call this then   http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38323/PS3_Price_Drop_Leads_To_Sony_Q2_Losses.php 

I would call that a site taking one sentence in Sony's financial statement and spinning it for a headline, hoping for more hits.  If you actually read it, it states the main reasons for the losses in bold at the beginning, which are the foreign exchange rate, the flood, and poor LCD TV sales.  There's only one mention of the PS3 price drop later, which leads me to believe it only decreased profit, and was not a major cause of any losses.

THIS. I searched Sony's financial statement too, and I can mostly confirm what you wrote. PS3 reduced revenue caused losses from other products and from acquisitions to be offset less than in the past, but PS3 isn't "producing" losses, it offsets them less than before the cut, but it's a completely different thing. The end result of the whole division losing is true, but PS3 isn't causing losses anymore (except obviously those accumulated before) since it broke even during Spring 2010.


Again, wrong!  Read my response to thismeintiel. 

1.  You didn't search Sony's financial statement.  If you did, you didn't actually use the right criteria or actually look through the document to find the information.  It's there, as I posted.  Page 20 in the PDF of F-8 in the document.

2.  There was a 7.7% loss for the quarter (attributable to the price drop as per Sony's financial outlook) and a 9.6% loss for the year up to that point (two quarters in Sony's fiscal year).  A loss cannot offset losses in other divisions, it only adds to them.

I read it again and it doesn't say what you think it's saying. 7.7% lower revenue means 7.7% lower revenue, not 7.7% loss. Because of reduced revenue (and surely reduced profits, but not necessarily turning from profit to loss) in one of the sectors that were profiting, added to losses in TVs and PC, and costs for acquisitions, the overall losses increased.

Maybe you too should read it again.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Around the Network
Alby_da_Wolf on 04 January 2012
Seece said:
Adinnieken said:
thismeintiel said:
ZaneWane said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
Losses of Sony division that makes, amongst other things, PS3, aren't due to PS3 price cut, but to TVs losses and expensive acquisitions.

what would u call this then   http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/38323/PS3_Price_Drop_Leads_To_Sony_Q2_Losses.php 

I would call that a site taking one sentence in Sony's financial statement and spinning it for a headline, hoping for more hits.  If you actually read it, it states the main reasons for the losses in bold at the beginning, which are the foreign exchange rate, the flood, and poor LCD TV sales.  There's only one mention of the PS3 price drop later, which leads me to believe it only decreased profit, and was not a major cause of any losses.


This is why reading the financials is fundemental to understanding.  Sony specically states that the Game division LOST 7.7% in a 3 month period and 9.6%  in a 6 month period, both ending Sept. 30, 2011 (30/9/2011).  Granted, the loss that SCE suffered was the least of the Consumer Products and Services division, but their loss was greater than half of the total revenue of the Professional Device and Solutions division, and it could completely erase all of or the majority of the Music and Pictures divisions revenue.  So it IS a substantial loss.

Sony is the one who attributed their losses to the price cut.  Sony is stated that they suffered losses in related to their gaming business in their financials.  This has nothing to do with anything being taken out of context, it has to do with facts. 

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf (Page 20 of the PDF / Page F-8 of the document)

Thismeintiel doesn't even understand the meaning of impossible, and you expect him to swallow this?

You should have read the document he linked before agreeing with Adinnieken: Sony wrote in a note (elsewhere in the same document, easy to find as it's the only part in which Playstation is named) lower REVENUE from games sector contributed to increased losses, but nowhere it wrote games sector turned again from profit to loss. Adinnieken is confusing 7.7% lower revenue with 7.7% loss, quite an embarrassing reading failure. Lower revenue may, and most probably does, imply lower profit, but it doesn't necessarily imply loss. While losses from TVs and PCs and high costs of acquisitions, added to reduced revenues and profits from profiting sectors, perfectly explain the overall loss.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


Alby_da_Wolf on 04 January 2012

Just for precision, from this source: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf

Page 3 and 4:

Sales decreased 12.3% year-on-year (a 7% decrease on a local currency basis) to 779.7 billion yen (10,126 million
U.S. dollars). Sales to outside customers decreased 12.4% year-on-year. This was primarily due to a decrease in
LCD television sales, reflecting price declines due mainly to deterioration in market conditions in the U.S. and
Europe and unfavorable foreign exchange rates, lower PC sales reflecting price competition, a decline in sales of
the game business, reflecting a strategic price reduction of PlayStation®3 hardware in advance of the year-end
holiday season, as well as a decrease in sales of compact digital cameras resulting from lower unit sales due to a
slowdown in market growth and unfavorable foreign exchange rates.

Operating loss of 34.6 billion yen (449 million U.S. dollars) was recorded compared to income of 1.0 billion yen
in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year. This was primarily due to deterioration in the cost of sales ratio
and a decrease in gross profit due to lower sales, partially offset by a decrease in restructuring charges. Categories
contributing to the deterioration in operating results (excluding restructuring charges) include LCD televisions,
reflecting a decline in unit selling prices that exceeded cost and expense reductions, the game business and PCs,
reflecting lower sales as noted above. Operating loss included additional LCD panel related expenses resulting
from low capacity utilization of S-LCD as well as the above-noted asset impairment of 8.6 billion yen (112 million
U.S. dollars) associated with LCD television assets.

Page 20 of the PDF / Page F-8 of the document:



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!   


yo_john117 on 04 January 2012
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Just for precision, from this source: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf

Page 3 and 4:

Sales decreased 12.3% year-on-year (a 7% decrease on a local currency basis) to 779.7 billion yen (10,126 million
U.S. dollars). Sales to outside customers decreased 12.4% year-on-year. This was primarily due to a decrease in
LCD television sales, reflecting price declines due mainly to deterioration in market conditions in the U.S. and
Europe and unfavorable foreign exchange rates, lower PC sales reflecting price competition, a decline in sales of
the game business, reflecting a strategic price reduction of PlayStation®3 hardware in advance of the year-end
holiday season, as well as a decrease in sales of compact digital cameras resulting from lower unit sales due to a
slowdown in market growth and unfavorable foreign exchange rates.

Operating loss of 34.6 billion yen (449 million U.S. dollars) was recorded compared to income of 1.0 billion yen
in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year. This was primarily due to deterioration in the cost of sales ratio
and a decrease in gross profit due to lower sales, partially offset by a decrease in restructuring charges. Categories
contributing to the deterioration in operating results (excluding restructuring charges) include LCD televisions,
reflecting a decline in unit selling prices that exceeded cost and expense reductions, the game business and PCs,
reflecting lower sales as noted above. Operating loss included additional LCD panel related expenses resulting
from low capacity utilization of S-LCD as well as the above-noted asset impairment of 8.6 billion yen (112 million
U.S. dollars) associated with LCD television assets.

Page 20 of the PDF / Page F-8 of the document:

Wow I wasn't aware that Sony made almost as much revenue on their gaming division as their other big divisions. That's quite impressive really.



D-Joe on 04 January 2012
yo_john117 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Just for precision, from this source: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11q2_sony.pdf

Page 3 and 4:

Sales decreased 12.3% year-on-year (a 7% decrease on a local currency basis) to 779.7 billion yen (10,126 million
U.S. dollars). Sales to outside customers decreased 12.4% year-on-year. This was primarily due to a decrease in
LCD television sales, reflecting price declines due mainly to deterioration in market conditions in the U.S. and
Europe and unfavorable foreign exchange rates, lower PC sales reflecting price competition, a decline in sales of
the game business, reflecting a strategic price reduction of PlayStation®3 hardware in advance of the year-end
holiday season, as well as a decrease in sales of compact digital cameras resulting from lower unit sales due to a
slowdown in market growth and unfavorable foreign exchange rates.

Operating loss of 34.6 billion yen (449 million U.S. dollars) was recorded compared to income of 1.0 billion yen
in the same quarter of the previous fiscal year. This was primarily due to deterioration in the cost of sales ratio
and a decrease in gross profit due to lower sales, partially offset by a decrease in restructuring charges. Categories
contributing to the deterioration in operating results (excluding restructuring charges) include LCD televisions,
reflecting a decline in unit selling prices that exceeded cost and expense reductions, the game business and PCs,
reflecting lower sales as noted above. Operating loss included additional LCD panel related expenses resulting
from low capacity utilization of S-LCD as well as the above-noted asset impairment of 8.6 billion yen (112 million
U.S. dollars) associated with LCD television assets.

Page 20 of the PDF / Page F-8 of the document:

Wow I wasn't aware that Sony made almost as much revenue on their gaming division as their other big divisions. That's quite impressive really.

nah the picture just CPS,not whole Sony

how can Sony be that small



http://zh-tw.justin.tv/johndoe1899

Around the Network
PizzaFaceGamer on 04 January 2012

Well sony has A TON of products and they make HUGE GROSS REVENUE....but after ALL EXPENSES sony is piling on the debt.

They have lost money 4 straight years overall



Wh1pL4shL1ve_007 on 04 January 2012

That is true though. Were talking about Sony and we ought to talk about its pilling debt.



Yay!!!

Seece on 04 January 2012

It'll veer back with this weeks sales



 

brendude13 on 04 January 2012
Seece said:
It'll veer back with this weeks sales

So...

This week's sales will bring us to the end of the year, right? And the 360 needs to outsell the PS3 by 200,000 or so?



welshbloke on 04 January 2012

Dramatic drum roll please.... Dum Dum Dummmmmmmm!



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.