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Forums - General - Animal testing is barbaric!

As someone who works in laboratory animal science, I couldn't agree more. It's a very barbaric practice. So, by all means, feel free to step up and offer yourself as a test subject whenever you're ready.



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lestatdark said:
forest-spirit said:
I understand why animals are used in medical research as it's in our nature to think of ourselves before others. There is no reason to let the animals suffer more than necessary though.
However, modern science is now letting us grow entire body parts and when that technology let's us grow e.nough "human" to test on then using animals is no longer acceptable in my book.

Using animals in cosmetic research on the other hand is fully despicable and unacceptable.

Growing entire body parts is still a work in progress. The best you can grow in full detail are individual organs and tissue samples, there still some complications in recreating entire working systems from stem cells or cloning processes. 

However that will lead to a whole new ethical debate and whole new arguments. Would it be ethically and morally right to do tests on cloned bodies or "grown" from stem cells? How can you justify that the "grown" humans don't have the same rights as a normal human has? If they do, then why not just test on regular humans? 

That would be the equivalent of an ethical shitstorm.


Yeah, we won't be there anytime soon.

I think there will be ways to use that technology efficiently without having to grow complete humans. It gets really problematic when you need a brain and unfortunately a brain is quite important in many cases. As long as you can just hook up a piece of meat that more or less resembles a human body to a computer and do some testing then I don't see a problem, but when you involve the brain you add things like conscience and advances stuff like that to your equation and it all becomes a big mess. Of course, just the idea of recreating a human brain lies probably atleast a hundred years into the future so we won't face that epic dilemma just yet...



forest-spirit said:
lestatdark said:
forest-spirit said:
I understand why animals are used in medical research as it's in our nature to think of ourselves before others. There is no reason to let the animals suffer more than necessary though.
However, modern science is now letting us grow entire body parts and when that technology let's us grow e.nough "human" to test on then using animals is no longer acceptable in my book.

Using animals in cosmetic research on the other hand is fully despicable and unacceptable.

Growing entire body parts is still a work in progress. The best you can grow in full detail are individual organs and tissue samples, there still some complications in recreating entire working systems from stem cells or cloning processes. 

However that will lead to a whole new ethical debate and whole new arguments. Would it be ethically and morally right to do tests on cloned bodies or "grown" from stem cells? How can you justify that the "grown" humans don't have the same rights as a normal human has? If they do, then why not just test on regular humans? 

That would be the equivalent of an ethical shitstorm.


Yeah, we won't be there anytime soon.

I think there will be ways to use that technology efficiently without having to grow complete humans. It gets really problematic when you need a brain and unfortunately a brain is quite important in many cases. As long as you can just hook up a piece of meat that more or less resembles a human body to a computer and do some testing then I don't see a problem, but when you involve the brain you add things like conscience and advances stuff like that to your equation and it all becomes a big mess. Of course, just the idea of recreating a human brain lies probably atleast a hundred years into the future so we won't face that epic dilemma just yet...

You're right, and a hundred years in the future is probably a very hopeful estimation. 

Science will probably find a way to circumvent the problem, like creating tissue that functions with the systematic structure of the brain and has the same basic chemistry, without the implications of actually creating a working brain that can correlate conscience and higher thought. As long as the tissue is usable for performing the same tests as in a normal brain, that would be the ideal scenario.



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Ps3 said:
mantlepiecek said:
If the testing harms the said animal, then yeah, animal testing is wrong.

But if the said animal is something like a cockroach, on which harm is usually inflicted upon without guilt, then maybe that kind of testing is also ok.


I'm fine with testing being done on cockroaches. Even goldfish, because they have a memory of only 6 seconds and they'll forget the pain.

what if the pains longer than 6 seconds? god people like you piss me off

why is the cockroaches rights anyless than anything else?



Get over it.



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I can see the concern on your side. I do however argue that in this day in age new drugs and advancements in curing diseases requires some kind of testing on biological living creatures. Animals are more similar in function and DNA than say an insect is. For the best results to finding cures for diseases we need to use animals. Will you still feel the same if one day through preclinical testing the cure for a major disease is discovered?

I would however state that animal testing should be done in a very humane way in a regulated environment to assure their proper treatment. Brutally abusing and animal cruelty should not be accepted. Animal testing gives mankind key knowlege that could unlock cures or important methods that can save many human lives. It has already resluted in saving human lives.




It's a toughie isn't it? Test on animals or test on humans?



Ps3 said:
mantlepiecek said:
If the testing harms the said animal, then yeah, animal testing is wrong.

But if the said animal is something like a cockroach, on which harm is usually inflicted upon without guilt, then maybe that kind of testing is also ok.


I'm fine with testing being done on cockroaches. Even goldfish, because they have a memory of only 6 seconds and they'll forget the pain.


http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-goldfish-memory-minimyth.html

 

Goldfish have memories that last at the very least days, not seconds. They almost certainly can remember things for months/years, but that has not been proved AFAIK.



I'm not a fan of testing on monkeys etc, but other animals are okay with me (sorry guys)



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humans are animals, too

and the way humans are acting today.... makes them worse than animals



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