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Forums - Nintendo - Wii-U's best chance requires forward compatability for the Wii

Mr Khan said:
kitler53 said:
all the wii U needs is some really innovative new software title comparable to wii sports and wii fit. my mother (who didn't want a nes, snes, n64, gc, or any competitors product) bought a wii basically for those two titles. without some innovative, new software specifically targeted at her tastes she will skip the wii U generation as well.

this is nintendo's true test ... it is a lot easier to be a one hit wonder than to be the "real deal". i'm not saying i understand why the wii was so popular but from the looks of things i'm not sure nintendo understands it either.

Nintendo knows what worked for the Wii, it's just that they dislike having to make those kinds of games as much as every other "respectable" developer does. Nintendo at least knuckled down and did it, but now that they feel the pressure's off, will they do so again?

Some of the Wii U tech demos looked promising in that regard, in that they were thinking Miis and local multiplayer, so we'll have to wait and see

So far we've heard of a new Wii Fit, a new 2D Mario and a new Wii Sports (or an enhanced Wii Sports version that makes use of the controller). We've also seen the demos you mentioned. Basically all of the games (esides Zelda) we've heard of or seen so far have been mass market games. 

Saying the controller is awkward and won't sell people on the console is something I totally agree with. But this sentiment of "Nintendo doesn't want to make Wii Sports / Mario Bros." simply doesn't hold water at this point. If these games suddenly dissappear at next year's e3 we can start jumping to conclusions.



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UncleScrooge said:
Mr Khan said:
kitler53 said:
all the wii U needs is some really innovative new software title comparable to wii sports and wii fit. my mother (who didn't want a nes, snes, n64, gc, or any competitors product) bought a wii basically for those two titles. without some innovative, new software specifically targeted at her tastes she will skip the wii U generation as well.

this is nintendo's true test ... it is a lot easier to be a one hit wonder than to be the "real deal". i'm not saying i understand why the wii was so popular but from the looks of things i'm not sure nintendo understands it either.

Nintendo knows what worked for the Wii, it's just that they dislike having to make those kinds of games as much as every other "respectable" developer does. Nintendo at least knuckled down and did it, but now that they feel the pressure's off, will they do so again?

Some of the Wii U tech demos looked promising in that regard, in that they were thinking Miis and local multiplayer, so we'll have to wait and see

So far we've heard of a new Wii Fit, a new 2D Mario and a new Wii Sports (or an enhanced Wii Sports version that makes use of the controller). We've also seen the demos you mentioned. Basically all of the games (esides Zelda) we've heard of or seen so far have been mass market games. 

Saying the controller is awkward and won't sell people on the console is something I totally agree with. But this sentiment of "Nintendo doesn't want to make Wii Sports / Mario Bros." simply doesn't hold water at this point. If these games suddenly dissappear at next year's e3 we can start jumping to conclusions.

only speaking for what i know (my mother) she loved wii sports but didn't buy wii sports resort, she loved wii fit but didn't get wii fit plus.  sequels to these franchises won't hurt but i don't think for her (a very casual gamer and by casual i mean she doesn't dedicate an enormous amount of time/money into gaming) it will be enough to upgrade to the wii U.

i mean, just look at nintendogs ds vs. 3ds.  despite selling more than 24M on the ds, the 3ds version has sold less LTD (which is about 5 months) then the ds version did in 2 weeks.

nintendo will need something complete new imo.  i have no idea what will excite that audience but nintendo had better have some ideas or i don't think the wii U will recapture that audience.  i just don't think a sequel can recapture their attention.



Pyro as Bill said:

Obviously we have all recognised that it's a silly idea to base a new console around something which could be done as an attachment for the Wii or with DS compatibility (there's enough of them around).

Adding a screen, whilst not a completely stupid idea, isn't enough to sell the Wii Sports Resort crowd on an ugrade.

Any progress in gameplay will come more from controls than graphics. Wii is capable of the same controls as Wii-U. Gameplay is cross/every generational.

It's time to hold Nintendo up to the same standards as 3rd parties. 3rd parties may make shit games but as least they made shit SD games. I can't think of a single Nintendo IP that would improve/revolutionise gameplay by improving textures or adding a screen.

OoT should have been on Wii as an M+ remake not a 3d remake to tide people over and give them a quality taste of what Skyward sword could be like.

Starfox 64 should have been on Wii as an M+ remake with online multiplayer, god forbid it might even use 2 wiimotes, one for arwing control the other for aiming.

Same goes for Pilotwings and the same goes for any future WII U game.

Are there any games (that belong on consoles not PCs) that would benefit more from an added screen than from improved and more accesible controls?

No.

Nintendo needs to provide Wii versions of their WiiU games on the same disc and treat the WiiU as an HD upgrade with gimmicky screen abilities. Similar to how Super Mario World was a NES game with gimmicky L and R features or the 3DS.

This... Just reeks of 'Rolstoppable'.

 

o_0



The BuShA owns all!

@Pyro as Bill

You are so wrong that it is hard to count the ways, but I will do my best to give you a good accounting. There is just no justification for limiting the potential of new hardware to support the limitations of old hardware. The new console is going to address the limitations of the old hardware. The biggest limitation of the old hardware was the control scheme. It simply did not work for a multitude of reasons. Primarily the limited inputs that could be created, and secondarily the convoluted nature of those inputs could leave the player easily fatigued. Not to mention mandatory positioning for so many titles.

Nintendo wants to get games on to their systems that hardcore and core players want to play. You cannot do that without having controls that support the highest level of fidelity. The controls for the Wii are cumbersome, and while you may argue that the controls could pull it off in one way or another. The dance required to do just that actually makes for a less intuitive experience. Perhaps the best counter argument is this. Motion control is not remotely necessary for any game you have played on the Wii. You could pull it all off with a standard controller.

The new control has greater potential, and at the same time offers a good compromise. It will still support the casual play that the predecessor did, but the touch screen alone will allow for deeper mechanics. Without compromising the quality of the experience. You can play any console game on the market with that new controller, and you could actually play games that were not plausible on the consoles previously. There is no reason to come up a better interface only to limit yourself as to what you can do. You are arguing for demolition not progress.

That said your ignoring other aspects altogether. Hopefully the new machine will support greater community interactivity in allowing for people to play games online. Once again the Wii is limited technically in what it can support. Why argue that the next racing game support only eight players when it could support sixteen or thirty two players. Any resources that are dedicated to limitation for the sake of the old machine will only demean the new machine. There just isn't a need for multiple optimized codes. Why have a machine with better graphics if you cannot use those graphics, because the old machine couldn't support that level of visual goodness.

Lastly the novelty of the old interface waned. Which resulted in the old dust magnet cliche. Where people would buy the console play it for a few months, and then shelf the console. The reality is even the ardent Nintendo supporters are still smarting about this, and are going to want assurances that the next console will be able to support all of the huge games that the competition got due to the Wii not just being graphically underpowered but control underpowered. Any hint at all that the new console will be limited would be a major turn off. There just isn't a good argument as to why their own experience should be limited.

Limiting implementation is simply the worst possible idea I have run across in quite some time. This notion has simply never worked in the history of gaming. You simply do not hedge when you move forward. You either move forward to a system with major improvements or you do not. Nintendo learned this the hard way with the good old 64DD which failed epically. The ground between peripheral and new console is simply a no mans land where nothing survives. The new console should in no way be treated as a add on system. That would be the kiss of death. Guaranteeing that the console would never get off of the ground.

I hope nobody reads my comments as a glowing endorsement of the platform or Nintendo. The reality for me is this, and I am not likely to be proven wrong. Nintendo is one of the laziest software developers on the planet, and that is going to eventually catch up with them. Nobody milks like Nintendo, and nobody is as uninspired as Nintendo. They love nothing more then reiterating rather then innovating. They put so little effort in to their titles it is almost tragic. They just copy the same games over and over. That controller has a lot of potential, but I suspect that Nintendo is going to make use of it in the lamest way possible.

I suspect that the majority of the time it will be used as a inventory screen, or to replace a onscreen display. Making the feature entirely superfluous. Seeing as that feature was always a button hit away before. I would also bet you will have a few games that have some furry critter using the screen a cut scene pop up. Such as do a Barrel Roll. In other words I do not see Nintendo using it for anything like a on the fly control of any import. A example of this would be playing a F Zero type game where the screen was used to manually redirect power flow to different systems. For example you are in the last place spot in a straight away. You could manually dump power from shields and thrusters to the rear engines. Thus giving you a major speed boost until you manually dial the whole thing back, or maybe you could dial up the repulsion system on the craft so you could fly over other vehicles.

The design has a lot of promise. I just do not see a lot of hope in Nintendo using it anywhere near its true potential.



Dodece said:

Although I agree with a few of your points, there are several, most notably the following, that I starkly disagree with...


"Motion control is not remotely necessary for any game you have played on the Wii. You could pull it all off with a standard controller."

Sure, controller based tennis and bowling games existed long before the Wii, but how can you say that motion doesn't allow for a far better and intuitive experience for these types of games?

 


"... nobody is as uninspired as Nintendo. They love nothing more then reiterating rather then innovating. They put so little effort in to their titles it is almost tragic. They just copy the same games over and over."

Seriously?  I think every company is guilty of reiterating ideas, Nintendo included.  But to say nobody is as uninspired as Nintendo is laughable.  They have set industry and gameplay standards with games like Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario 64, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, Brain Age...  These types of gameplay ideas have been copied by other companies more times than I can count; hardly uninspired.  And their hardware innovations are no different:  the D-pad, analogue stick, touch screen and motion control concepts were all introduced into consoles/handhelds by Nintendo.  Even Sony and Microsoft themselves have publicly credited Nintendo's innovation and have even answered with their own forms of motion controls.

Whether or not they continue their innovative, inspired ideas with Wii U remains to be seen, but regardless, they have certainly proved themselves in the past.





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kitler53 said:
UncleScrooge said:
Mr Khan said:
kitler53 said:
all the wii U needs is some really innovative new software title comparable to wii sports and wii fit. my mother (who didn't want a nes, snes, n64, gc, or any competitors product) bought a wii basically for those two titles. without some innovative, new software specifically targeted at her tastes she will skip the wii U generation as well.

this is nintendo's true test ... it is a lot easier to be a one hit wonder than to be the "real deal". i'm not saying i understand why the wii was so popular but from the looks of things i'm not sure nintendo understands it either.

Nintendo knows what worked for the Wii, it's just that they dislike having to make those kinds of games as much as every other "respectable" developer does. Nintendo at least knuckled down and did it, but now that they feel the pressure's off, will they do so again?

Some of the Wii U tech demos looked promising in that regard, in that they were thinking Miis and local multiplayer, so we'll have to wait and see

So far we've heard of a new Wii Fit, a new 2D Mario and a new Wii Sports (or an enhanced Wii Sports version that makes use of the controller). We've also seen the demos you mentioned. Basically all of the games (esides Zelda) we've heard of or seen so far have been mass market games. 

Saying the controller is awkward and won't sell people on the console is something I totally agree with. But this sentiment of "Nintendo doesn't want to make Wii Sports / Mario Bros." simply doesn't hold water at this point. If these games suddenly dissappear at next year's e3 we can start jumping to conclusions.

only speaking for what i know (my mother) she loved wii sports but didn't buy wii sports resort, she loved wii fit but didn't get wii fit plus.  sequels to these franchises won't hurt but i don't think for her (a very casual gamer and by casual i mean she doesn't dedicate an enormous amount of time/money into gaming) it will be enough to upgrade to the wii U.

i mean, just look at nintendogs ds vs. 3ds.  despite selling more than 24M on the ds, the 3ds version has sold less LTD (which is about 5 months) then the ds version did in 2 weeks.

nintendo will need something complete new imo.  i have no idea what will excite that audience but nintendo had better have some ideas or i don't think the wii U will recapture that audience.  i just don't think a sequel can recapture their attention.

It's flat out not going to happen anyway. The WiiU isn't accessible like the Wii is, and I'm not calling the Wii a fad, but its popularity has certainly likened itself to that, a very early peak Vs. the other consoles this gen.

I think Nintendo understand this, people (Nintendo fans) like to claim Nintendo are like some ever lasting fountain of innovative ideas but it isn't true, there is only so much they can come out with, and they've proven they'll use gimmicks as a cover up for lack of innovation (3DS)

WiiU is obviously the same, they've run out of ideas, they know a straight down the line core console would get brutally beaten by whatever Sony and MS bring out, and that a slight upgrade to the Wii would be worthless as that audience doesn't care about graphics, and to be perfectly honest, they don't care about all these 3rd party games being announced for WiiU either ... it just isn't Nintendo's audience.

Nintendo are in for another Gamecube generation, albeit it more successful obviously. Which is no bad thing, it's where they concentrate on the core nintendo fanbase.



 

archbrix said:

Dodece said:

Although I agree with a few of your points, there are several, most notably the following, that I starkly disagree with...


"Motion control is not remotely necessary for any game you have played on the Wii. You could pull it all off with a standard controller."

Sure, controller based tennis and bowling games existed long before the Wii, but how can you say that motion doesn't allow for a far better and intuitive experience for these types of games?

 


"... nobody is as uninspired as Nintendo. They love nothing more then reiterating rather then innovating. They put so little effort in to their titles it is almost tragic. They just copy the same games over and over."

Seriously?  I think every company is guilty of reiterating ideas, Nintendo included.  But to say nobody is as uninspired as Nintendo is laughable.  They have set industry and gameplay standards with games like Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario 64, Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Nintendogs, Brain Age...  These types of gameplay ideas have been copied by other companies more times than I can count; hardly uninspired.  And their hardware innovations are no different:  the D-pad, analogue stick, touch screen and motion control concepts were all introduced into consoles/handhelds by Nintendo.  Even Sony and Microsoft themselves have publicly credited Nintendo's innovation and have even answered with their own forms of motion controls.

Whether or not they continue their innovative, inspired ideas with Wii U remains to be seen, but regardless, they have certainly proved themselves in the past.



@archbrix I totally agree.  Even if Nintendo dropped the ball a bit at keeping the Wii alive this late in its life there's no denying that the innovation was definitely there.  Besides the system will be over 5 years old when WiiU comes out anyway which is the typical lifespan for a Nintendo console and Wii is the best selling home console they've made.

I definitely wouldn't call the Wii a fad, not when the market caused the competition to follow their lead with motion controls but I do agree with @Seece that the WiiU could have more of a Gamecube future, although it'll be at least twice as successful.  Still if that means even better games down the line for most of us here on this site I'm all for it.



Haha, so we're still listening to Pachter's bullshit?



Nintendo is a family brand. They don't make M-rated games.



scottie said:
Haha, so we're still listening to Pachter's bullshit?


Why bring him into this? Talk about random.