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Forums - Microsoft - Daily Finance: Why MicroSoft Will Never Be Great Again

Seece on 31 August 2011
vlad321 said:
Seece said:

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.


Why are you so focused about Sony? Sony isn't even relevant when it comes to Microsoft. As far as Microsoft's profits go, the Xbox is basically insignificant and arugably pointless (and possibly harmful given how they decided to fuck a core audience of Windows to barely turn a profit).

Because Sony and Nintendo should be their benchmark, it's stupid to expect MS to achieve gigantic profits akin to the Windows division in other areas, if all the smaller divisions make a profit, it's a good thing. And you can belittle the xbox division all you like, and yes it's small (not insignificant) to their main profits, but it's not barely profitable, to call a division making 1.3B in a year barely profitable is just stupid.



 

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vlad321 on 31 August 2011
Seece said:
vlad321 said:
Seece said:

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.


Why are you so focused about Sony? Sony isn't even relevant when it comes to Microsoft. As far as Microsoft's profits go, the Xbox is basically insignificant and arugably pointless (and possibly harmful given how they decided to fuck a core audience of Windows to barely turn a profit).

Because Sony and Nintendo should be their benchmark, it's stupid to expect MS to achieve gigantic profits akin to the Windows division in other areas, if all the smaller divisions make a profit, it's a good thing. And you can belittle the xbox division all you like, and yes it's small (not insignificant) to their main profits, but it's not barely profitable, to call a division making 1.3B in a year barely profitable is just stupid.


Again, why exactly are Sony and Nintendo the benchmarks? Maybe if they were producing only the Xbox then yeah they would be, however Microsoft is bigger than that. When you look at Microsoft the Xbox division is 6%. That's just above a 20th of the profits, and calling it anything other than barely significant is pretty ignorant and dumb. Furthermore, as I already posed the question, I wonder how much profit Microsoft had to siphon off of their Windows division (the one that counts) to get the Xbox to this level. I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox has actually hurt them more than help them, given that gamers are usually the staunchest defenders of Windows vs Apple or Linux.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

oniyide on 01 September 2011
vlad321 said:
Seece said:
vlad321 said:
Seece said:

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.


Why are you so focused about Sony? Sony isn't even relevant when it comes to Microsoft. As far as Microsoft's profits go, the Xbox is basically insignificant and arugably pointless (and possibly harmful given how they decided to fuck a core audience of Windows to barely turn a profit).

Because Sony and Nintendo should be their benchmark, it's stupid to expect MS to achieve gigantic profits akin to the Windows division in other areas, if all the smaller divisions make a profit, it's a good thing. And you can belittle the xbox division all you like, and yes it's small (not insignificant) to their main profits, but it's not barely profitable, to call a division making 1.3B in a year barely profitable is just stupid.


Again, why exactly are Sony and Nintendo the benchmarks? Maybe if they were producing only the Xbox then yeah they would be, however Microsoft is bigger than that. When you look at Microsoft the Xbox division is 6%. That's just above a 20th of the profits, and calling it anything other than barely significant is pretty ignorant and dumb. Furthermore, as I already posed the question, I wonder how much profit Microsoft had to siphon off of their Windows division (the one that counts) to get the Xbox to this level. I wouldn't be surprised if the Xbox has actually hurt them more than help them, given that gamers are usually the staunchest defenders of Windows vs Apple or Linux.

this makes more sense than the acutal article.

OT, you MS fans are a paranoid bunch, have a drink or something



Baalzamon on 01 September 2011

Yea, Microsoft is a really bad stock to be in for the last 10 years. Pretty much the only money you would have made is the ~$6.50 in dividends over 8 years that they have provided us.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

Ostro on 01 September 2011

It's weird, in the past companies like MS, Apple, IBM, whatever went straight forward and earned a ton of money.
Nowadays innovation is either slow or very expensive. Those companies started with nothing, seriously. And now most of them struggle to do something new again although they have been sitting on a mountain of cash.



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vlad321 on 01 September 2011
kowenicki said:
vlad321 said:
Seece said:

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.


Why are you so focused about Sony? Sony isn't even relevant when it comes to Microsoft. As far as Microsoft's profits go, the Xbox is basically insignificant and arugably pointless (and possibly harmful given how they decided to fuck a core audience of Windows to barely turn a profit).

Well given your barometer, its perfectly reasonable to bring Sony into the discussion.... 

How long has the Playstation brand existed now?  I think I am right in saying that even now the playstation divsion only accounts for around 10% of revenue for Sony... and proftability...? it hasn't got any... add all the years together and it has barely made a cent  (any profits for PS1 and PS2 vanished due to PS3)... It might even be showing a net loss still... it certainly was up until recently. 

So just using figures such as the ones you decided were a great barometer for importance clearly do not tell the whole story.  If this was all that mattered then Sony should have ditched Playstation by now... but it isnt. There are intagible benefits to having these brands.  Certainly Sony and MS feel that way.


Funny because the Playstation seems to do pretty well for Sony. When it started getting profits, it seemed to help Sony overall pretty significantly. If you drop out the Playstation from Sony, they would be in a much worse place than if you dropped out Xbox from Microsoft. If that were to happen Microsoft would more or less shrug its shoulders. Also the games division is Sony's second biggest product group.

Edit: Some numbers I scrounged up: The playstation+vaio division made nearly 46 bil yen. TVs, cameras, etc. made 27. So I guess it's not as insignficiant as you want me to believe.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

theprof00 on 01 September 2011
Seece said:
vlad321 said:
Seece said:


Things are looking better on the gaming front, but Microsoft is barely profitable there despite selling a ton of Xbox 360 consoles and Kinect controllers and collecting juicy software royalties.


Barely Profitable? .... they did what, 22B in profit last year (something like that) Xbox division contribuited 1.3 bill to that, not a massive chunk no, but leaps and bounds ahead of years ago, ahead of Ninty and Sony's divisions, and certainly not barely ... bias and anti article.


I hope you realize what a tiny percentage 1.3 is of 22. It's just barely above 5% and that's pretty laughable.

OT: I am curious whether it was a nice idea of Microsoft to try to push off their barely profitable Xbox in terms of gaming at the cost of their PC (Windows) division. Considering the gamers were some of their core upholding pillars, it may have jsut come back to bite them in the ass hardcore.

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.

I notice you said "ahead of nintendo" Nintendo has really never made 1.3 B? MS made more than nintendo? I find this all very implausible.



vlad321 on 01 September 2011
kowenicki said:
vlad321 said:
kowenicki said:
vlad321 said:
Seece said:

I am aware, and you can dampen it all you like 1.3B is not 'barely profitable' it's more than Sony have ever achieved with the Playstation division since its inception. To put it in perspective.


Why are you so focused about Sony? Sony isn't even relevant when it comes to Microsoft. As far as Microsoft's profits go, the Xbox is basically insignificant and arugably pointless (and possibly harmful given how they decided to fuck a core audience of Windows to barely turn a profit).

Well given your barometer, its perfectly reasonable to bring Sony into the discussion.... 

How long has the Playstation brand existed now?  I think I am right in saying that even now the playstation divsion only accounts for around 10% of revenue for Sony... and proftability...? it hasn't got any... add all the years together and it has barely made a cent  (any profits for PS1 and PS2 vanished due to PS3)... It might even be showing a net loss still... it certainly was up until recently. 

So just using figures such as the ones you decided were a great barometer for importance clearly do not tell the whole story.  If this was all that mattered then Sony should have ditched Playstation by now... but it isnt. There are intagible benefits to having these brands.  Certainly Sony and MS feel that way.


Funny because the Playstation seems to do pretty well for Sony. When it started getting profits, it seemed to help Sony overall pretty significantly. If you drop out the Playstation from Sony, they would be in a much worse place than if you dropped out Xbox from Microsoft. If that were to happen Microsoft would more or less shrug its shoulders. Also the games division is Sony's second biggest product group.

Edit: Some numbers I scrounged up: The playstation+vaio division made nearly 46 bil yen. TVs, cameras, etc. made 27. So I guess it's not as insignficiant as you want me to believe.

ahhh, you have flipped the argument.  I NEVER wanted to say that it wasnt significant... i was merely showing how just looking at numbers isnt the whole picture...

By the way.. for clarification (luckily I know how to read accounts)

I dont know what you mean by "made"...... perhaps you dont either?

But Sony revenue for Gaming is a little over 10% of their total revenue for 2011.

Profits for gaming?  Nobody knows, they dont break it down that way as you pointed out and its lumped in with many things.

 

Sales and Operating Revenue to Customers by Product Category
Yen in millions
Year ended March 31 2011

Networked Products & Services
Game: 798,405
PC and other Networked: 694,731

Total: 1,493,136

Sony Corp Consolidated total:  7,181,273

 

So gaming is (798,405/7,181,273)*100 =    11.1% of sony revenue  (down from 11.64% in 2010 and 12.7% in 2009)

And yet that is twice as much as the Xbox is a part of Microsoft. Hence a lot more significant.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

disolitude on 01 September 2011
Baalzamon said:
Yea, Microsoft is a really bad stock to be in for the last 10 years. Pretty much the only money you would have made is the ~$6.50 in dividends over 8 years that they have provided us.

Except for the share split in 2003...



Jereel Hunter on 01 September 2011

There was a time when a company making $20,000,000,000+ of profit annually would not be considered "lamentable". Oh wait, it's still that time. Maybe it's stock price isn't rising, but the company makes money hand over fist.