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Forums - Nintendo - Zelda needs a change, and it starts with the Wii U.

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Zelda needs change right?

Yes, its getting stale. 18 26.09%
 
No, you are just getting anxious for SS. 43 62.32%
 
I'm done with Zelda, who cares? 2 2.90%
 
2D Zelda FTW! 6 8.70%
 
Total:69

I voted no because there is nothing wrong with the francise. Each an every Zelda has had more than enough difference so that they weren't exactly the same. I once proposed the idea of starting out with all the weapons from the beginning instead of getting them from each dungon as you go. Then you have to figure out when to use each. But the over all game play should not change. Just make a new IP.



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Lyrikalstylez said:

I think the magic of Zelda has grown stale for me.....I mean how many times must link save Hyrule from Ganon?

I like Ganon as a boss but its time to get a new story with a new boss!!



So basically you are saying they need to change the name of the town and the big boss. Because each and every game has had a different twist on the final boss. But then how many times can you have the same zombies in a Resident Evil game. Are there that many zombies?



Yeah, I'm pretty sure since this game takes place before OOT that Ganon won't be in it,



Considering Skyward Sword is just months away, I think it would be best to postpone this conversation until after it releases.



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I do think that Twilight Princess tried to be 'hardcore' and Western. That is why it sucked.

Metroid Prime had tons and tons of hype, and I didn't find it to be nearly as good as people claimed, in fact, It was kind of Turokish, a first person shooter with adventure and platforming elements.



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Helios said:

I'm not saying the OP is completely without merit - the discussion regarding the creative leadership of the franchise is doubtlessly interesting - but before any such speculation might take place, we must get to the basics of the matter. I will be blunt here; I've yet to come across a sound and cogent argumentation as to why the Zelda series (in particular) needs to change.

Therefore, my first question is thus; Why only this franchise? Why not Mario? (Note that I am not accusing Mario of being stagnant - quite the opposite, in fact!)

But suppose I accept the notion that Zelda is in need of change; just what, then, needs changing? Is it a reliance on traditional Zelda tropes, structures, or plots? None of these complaints are trivially motivated, as a brief overview of the series' recent history shows.

Only ignorant plebians accuse Zelda of reutilizing anything but the most basic archetypal elements for its plot, and so it is, too, with dissidents lamenting the continued existence of block puzzles. Is the traditional arch of two sets of dungeons and a final confrontation in itself flawed? No, not any more than the dramatic three act structure itself. Why not, indeed, as some misguided souls have done, attack the very foundations (setting, characters, motif) of the series? No. The lesson here is that not everything needs to change. Take away certain things and, even if you are not robbing the series of its essence, you remove its central components - and for what? Nothing, as far as I know.

See, the series is doing fine on the creative front. Truly, the franchise is far from stagnant, the two great 'side movements' of recent times, Four Sword and the DS Zeldas, both ushered in new design paradigms for the series. Four Swords disposed with the traditional Zelda adventure world/structure and placed focus on arcade-style multiplayer action, and the DS Zeldas introduced a 2D/3D hybrid design placing focus on new interfaces, novel uses of items, and a central dungeon. Both movements, I might add, changed the 'experience' of their respective games in significant ways, and both directly involved Hidemaro Fujibayashi.

I cannot comment in-depth on the creative ails of the franchise directors/producers. I admire Aonuma, and think of him as a man with a sense of how to communicate drama through design, and on a conceptual plane, I've yet to find any flaw with his direction. If he wishes to move on, he should, but I see no reason to forcibly replace him. Still, both he and Miyamoto are difficult to separate from what "Zelda" is - simply because of the limited number of games which didn't involve their creative input.

What I can say is that I am very excited about the prospect of Fujibayashi directing a new Zelda. As I mentioned, the man has been an inovative force during recent years. I would personally trust no one else to perform better. He has a way of integrating new and exciting game mechanics with the game's mythos that I particularly enjoy, and his talent as a world-builder and writer are impressive (and markedly different from Koizumi's, though I suppose everyone is). I admit this is all coming from am a huge fan of The Minish Cap and Phantom Hourglass, but when Skyward Sword appears to incorporate some of the best aspects of those respective games along with new ideas, I think I have the right to be exited.

As for Zelda Wii U, the possibilities with that one are truly astounding, but it is too early to comment on specific hopes or fears, in my mind.

first off, zelda isn't the only stale game out there.  ratchet and clank is also at the top of my list of franchises that need change.  luckily all4one at least appears to be attempting it although i'm still wary.

second, i played twillight princess and more-or-less hated it.  and the reason isn't that the game was "bad" but rather a feeling of staleness embodied by this story:  after getting through the early training portions of the game i finally got out into hyrule field, i saw a heart container in the distance and said to myself, "i'll come back to that once i get a hookshot".

puzzle games have some of the worst replayability of any genre.  the problem is that the fun is in the joy of the discovery not in the act of completion.  zelda has been very puzzle driven over the last few games with the real issue being that from one game to the next they are using the same puzzles.

you may not particularily agree but the fact that soo many fans of the series are clamoring for change should be a clear sign to nintendo it is time to try something different like what they did with the metroid prime series.  hold onto the core elements while delivering a brand new experience.



RolStoppable said:
kitler53 said:
well i agree zelda needs a change, not sure i follow your logic exactly. the formula is getting stale to me, i just know what to expect too much. so here are my rules for a fresh zelda experience.

no boomerang
no hookshot
no bow and arrow
no bombs

a zelda game that can't rely on those old hats is a zelda game that will require new, fresh, great ideas.

Might as well take the sword out too while you are at it. But in all seriousness, that was a nice joke post of yours. It has to be, because otherwise the following sentence is the most blatant selfcontradiction I have seen since I logged in the last time.

"hold onto the core elements while delivering a brand new experience."

Granted, this is the first thread I have read since then, but... bah, let's just move on to serious business for real.

Taking out series staples like bombs, boomerang and bow and arrow won't do Zelda any good. These are essential items for a game like Zelda. For example, you need to be able to blow up rocks and walls to discover secrets. The problem nowadays isn't what items you get, but rather how they are used. In the past they were valuable weapons, nowadays they are not much more than tools to make an enemy's weak point vulnerable or something along those lines. Enemies in general are pushovers and bosses follow set patterns that make it easy to defeat with them without ever getting hit.

What needs to happen is a shift back to combat and away from puzzles. Tougher enemies, more weapons and more upgrades. How about at least five different swords or rather ten? With enemies that actually take skill to defeat, items like the boomerang to stun them become useful again. Arrows could take out enemies with one or two hits again while with the sword it takes six to eight. That's the kind of stuff that gives items an actually valuable purpose, not this overabundance of puzzles that was put into the newer games.

Zelda needs to become an actual video game again. The definition of a game is something that can be won or lost. If it's almost impossible to die, in other words lose, then a game is less of a game and more like an experience. This is the main problem of Zelda: It can't be the epic adventure it's supposed to be, if it's a walk in the park for the player.

well it wasn't meant to be a joke post but i agree with everything you said, especially the underlined.  i actually like the puzzle elements to a point, i just need new ones when they are present.



I'm looking forward to playing Zelda in HD :)



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kitler53 said:

first off, zelda isn't the only stale game out there.  ratchet and clank is also at the top of my list of franchises that need change.  luckily all4one at least appears to be attempting it although i'm still wary.

second, i played twillight princess and more-or-less hated it.  and the reason isn't that the game was "bad" but rather a feeling of staleness embodied by this story:  after getting through the early training portions of the game i finally got out into hyrule field, i saw a heart container in the distance and said to myself, "i'll come back to that once i get a hookshot".

puzzle games have some of the worst replayability of any genre.  the problem is that the fun is in the joy of the discovery not in the act of completion.  zelda has been very puzzle driven over the last few games with the real issue being that from one game to the next they are using the same puzzles.

you may not particularily agree but the fact that soo many fans of the series are clamoring for change should be a clear sign to nintendo it is time to try something different like what they did with the metroid prime series.  hold onto the core elements while delivering a brand new experience.

That's all fine and dandy - but you should really learn to recognize rhetorical points. My case is that Zelda is irrationally, if consistently, being singled out as a series in need of change - but just what does that entail? Isn't Mario's level structure (run from left to right) and reoccuring thematic worlds just as bad as anything Zelda does? Yet that series is left alone by the masses. Now, you might have reasonable standards for variance, not just with regards to Zelda but lots of game franchises, but are you applying them consistently? Most people, quite frankly, don't, and that's a problem.

Using the same puzzles over and over would be a problem - but I'm not aware of that happening beyond introductory elements. Yes, there are similar themes - and even overt references - to puzzles in other games, but what franchise doesn't do that? As Rol said, and as I implied, you can remove the staples of the series, but what purpose does that serve? Forced creativity? Look at the DS Zeldas and see how far old concept can be taken.

And I can't stress this enough; people really should play Four Swords Adventures. There's your template for a modern action Zelda (and prototype for NSMBWii) - courtesy of Eiji Aonuma.



Aquietguy said:
Lyrikalstylez said:

I think the magic of Zelda has grown stale for me.....I mean how many times must link save Hyrule from Ganon?

I like Ganon as a boss but its time to get a new story with a new boss!!



So basically you are saying they need to change the name of the town and the big boss. Because each and every game has had a different twist on the final boss. But then how many times can you have the same zombies in a Resident Evil game. Are there that many zombies?


There has to be a world other than hyrule! Maybe Link should take a vacation somewhere.....or maybe a different protagonist this time around

Im not saying they should completely remake the story...just expand it more. Thats why I loved Majora's Mask so much, it had a different twist to the storyline.