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Forums - Nintendo - 01Net Strikes Yet Again: Iwata near firing

gumby_trucker said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

"I said that as long as the artist can make a living he can do whatever he wants."

That's not how it works. Making a living is pleasing the customers/patrons (the main difference being that you couldn't just ignore or shrug off the patrons). Again, historically, artists did NOT do just what they wanted. Not if they wanted steady income, or for their works to last.

yeah, well like I said: you're welcome to go back to the 15th century if it suits you, I'd rather stay here with my half-assed Nintendo games and my underground sewage systems.


You really think my writing "througout history" means it somehow changed? The customer NEVER decided the artist was right. It was just the artists who decided they know better than the customers.

Acting like magically we are obligated to pay for the artists enjoying themselves is like claiming you can tame the wind. Customers outnumber the artists, and you cannot make it so that their will is lesser than people who think they only have to make a type of game once.

Furthermore, it's a bullshit strawman to equate telling artists to get over themselves and resptect the customers with going backwards in technology and civilization.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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gumby_trucker said:
RolStoppable said:

This is where the restaurant analogy comes in. Suppose there's a restaurant that became famous due to a certain dish that people couldn't get anywhere else. Not at that time and not anytime in the future. Then someday the cooks decide that they don't want to make this dish anymore, because they want to move on and explore new things.

I don't need to go into more detail, because you are smart enough to figure the rest anyway. You don't stop serving the dish that built your business. There is no excuse whatsoever, it's simply outright wrong.

When your business is entertainment and your end goal is improving quality of life you don't have to be as black and white as in other fields. At the end of the day you're selling a non-essential product. Sometimes I feel the fans don't know where to draw the line between nostalgia or appreciation, and unashamed feelings of entitlement. If Nintendo decided to quit making games tomorrow we gamers would still be far more in debt to them than they are to us.

If my satisfaction in my entertainment is SO important that other, more talented and hard-working individuals (not to mention more contributing) have to sacrifice their passions and quality of life in order to fulfill my (non-essential) desire, than something is deeply, deeply wrong with society.

Nobody forces us to buy Nintendo games, and if Nintendo developers are able to continue following their own passions while still remaining highly profitable and (for the most part) without competition in their fields, then more power to them I say! It just means that they are not only clever businessmen, but clever human-beings as well. We should all be so lucky.

I beg to differ with you on this respect. Nintendo is a business, not a charity. Yes, they have provided gamers much enjoyment over the years, but only in exchange for our hard earned cash (or our parent's for that matter) and never in detriment to their bottom line. They have in the past, as they should continue to do now, to procure their interests, and so should we. A fair exchange by all accounts. Nobody owes anybody anything.



Seriously what's with the avalanche of Nintendo D00med threads lately?? I'm surprised even 10% of it is even true and the rest just fanboy dreams...



If it isn't turnbased it isn't worth playing   (mostly)

And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints

"Nintendo is a business, not a charity."

That's a great rebuttal to such a mindset. Art is not charity. Casablanca wasn't made out of Warner Bros. wishing to bless the world with such a film. Neither was The Godfather, which wasn't even something Coppola wanted to make, but his small studio was going under.

Art is business, not a charity.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Naum said:
Seriously what's with the avalanche of Nintendo D00med threads lately?? I'm surprised even 10% of it is even true and the rest just fanboy dreams...


This time, it's following Nintendo actually losing money, instead of just haters wanting the Wii and DS to fail.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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oniyide said:
Roma said:
oniyide said:
gumby_trucker said:
oniyide said:

isnt that whay they did with Wii??


who did they buy this gen? as far as I know only NdCube...Monolith is a last gen investment and Retro even earlier than that.

i was thinking more in the lines of doing their own thing

Nintendo always does their own thing but they should buy up some developers so that they can sustain a constant stream of games to fill out all the gaps on their own. And if other developers want to fallow then they are welcome

true,  but IMHO i dont see that happening, Ninty is not known for doing that, this is one thing they should copy the others on

lol why are people so desperate to use copy when it comes to Nintendo? Has Nintendo never bought companies before? Even before Sony or MS entered this business? Sheesh



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

Roma said:
oniyide said:
Roma said:
oniyide said:
gumby_trucker said:
oniyide said:

isnt that whay they did with Wii??


who did they buy this gen? as far as I know only NdCube...Monolith is a last gen investment and Retro even earlier than that.

i was thinking more in the lines of doing their own thing

Nintendo always does their own thing but they should buy up some developers so that they can sustain a constant stream of games to fill out all the gaps on their own. And if other developers want to fallow then they are welcome

true,  but IMHO i dont see that happening, Ninty is not known for doing that, this is one thing they should copy the others on

lol why are people so desperate to use copy when it comes to Nintendo? Has Nintendo never bought companies before? Even before Sony or MS entered this business? Sheesh

Relax, im just saying they havent been doing it lately. Not anywhere near as much as the other two. They have been gobbling up devs right and left, hell even EA bought Bioware



oniyide said:
Roma said:
oniyide said:
Roma said:
oniyide said:
gumby_trucker said:
oniyide said:

isnt that whay they did with Wii??


who did they buy this gen? as far as I know only NdCube...Monolith is a last gen investment and Retro even earlier than that.

i was thinking more in the lines of doing their own thing

Nintendo always does their own thing but they should buy up some developers so that they can sustain a constant stream of games to fill out all the gaps on their own. And if other developers want to fallow then they are welcome

true,  but IMHO i dont see that happening, Ninty is not known for doing that, this is one thing they should copy the others on

lol why are people so desperate to use copy when it comes to Nintendo? Has Nintendo never bought companies before? Even before Sony or MS entered this business? Sheesh

Relax, im just saying they havent been doing it lately. Not anywhere near as much as the other two. They have been gobbling up devs right and left, hell even EA bought Bioware

no man I am so angry I could eat a kitten alive!!!

 

 

 

:P



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

LordTheNightKnight said:
"Nintendo is a business, not a charity."

That's a great rebuttal to such a mindset. Art is not charity. Casablanca wasn't made out of Warner Bros. wishing to bless the world with such a film. Neither was The Godfather, which wasn't even something Coppola wanted to make, but his small studio was going under.

Art is business, not a charity.

I think reviniente hit the nail on the head with this one as to why it's such a delicate issue. When your business is art there really does exist a fundamental conflict of interest at the very core. Personally I think there is very little correlation between good art and good business - for every "Godfather" there is a "Blade Runner", for every Michelangelo there is a Van Gogh. Good art is about making money just as much as running a good business is about artistic expression; Sometimes the two work together, sometimes they don't.

Thankfully the industry is smart enough to realize that long-term growth is important enough to account for some short-term losses. Hell, even Little King's Story is getting a sequel!



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gumby_trucker said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
"Nintendo is a business, not a charity."

That's a great rebuttal to such a mindset. Art is not charity. Casablanca wasn't made out of Warner Bros. wishing to bless the world with such a film. Neither was The Godfather, which wasn't even something Coppola wanted to make, but his small studio was going under.

Art is business, not a charity.

I think reviniente hit the nail on the head with this one as to why it's such a delicate issue. When your business is art there really does exist a fundamental conflict of interest at the very core. Personally I think there is very little correlation between good art and good business - for every "Godfather" there is a "Blade Runner", for every Michelangelo there is a Van Gogh. Good art is about making money just as much as running a good business is about artistic expression; Sometimes the two work together, sometimes they don't.

Thankfully the industry is smart enough to realize that long-term growth is important enough to account for some short-term losses. Hell, even Little King's Story is getting a sequel!


Van Gogh was more a victim of artists around him having their own ideas of what art should be, and when people outside that got a look at his work, it became popular. It's a similar thing to Star Trek, which turned mainstream enough to have a film franchise (it was the medicrity of Voyager and the crap of Enterprise that brought it down), but when the show was on, the network tried to screw it.

So the mainstream can actually make popular what those in art circles think is bad.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs