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Forums - Politics Discussion - Obama creates backdoor amnesty program for illegals.

Mr Khan said:
leatherhat said:
Mr Khan said:
Interesting that in *some* cases the original intent of the constitution is irrelevant to modern application, and yet in others the wisdom of the founding fathers is sacrosanct


I assume you're talking about the amendment issues, in which case the founding fathers have nothing to do with it. It was a ploy by Northern statesman to make sure that come the next elections blacks would vote for them and overwhelm white southerners to give them control of the South. Its vote pandering written into the constitution. Vote pandering not unlike Obama is doing now. 

Vote pandering was Amendment 15 (which forced the more convuluted variants of Jim Crow voting rules into effect). Amendment 14 resolved most of the other legal irregularities of the war, mostly to make sure the treacherous Southerners couldn't cock-block the changes that had already been made by force.

Or are we saying that the Founding Fathers are inherently superior to any who came after them?


Well they are certainly superior to the people behind reconstruction, which was an abject failure in almost every way possible. 



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leatherhat said:
Mr Khan said:
leatherhat said:
Mr Khan said:
Interesting that in *some* cases the original intent of the constitution is irrelevant to modern application, and yet in others the wisdom of the founding fathers is sacrosanct


I assume you're talking about the amendment issues, in which case the founding fathers have nothing to do with it. It was a ploy by Northern statesman to make sure that come the next elections blacks would vote for them and overwhelm white southerners to give them control of the South. Its vote pandering written into the constitution. Vote pandering not unlike Obama is doing now. 

Vote pandering was Amendment 15 (which forced the more convuluted variants of Jim Crow voting rules into effect). Amendment 14 resolved most of the other legal irregularities of the war, mostly to make sure the treacherous Southerners couldn't cock-block the changes that had already been made by force.

Or are we saying that the Founding Fathers are inherently superior to any who came after them?


Well they are certainly superior to the people behind reconstruction, which was an abject failure in almost every way possible. 

Only because they weren't punitive enough. The political will to really grind it in to the South and effect real cultural change was lost, and the Democrats forced Hayes to weasel out of it in exchange for the presidency due to the disputed election of 1876

The radicals weren't given enough free reign there



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DeathToIran24 said:

A nation of LEGAL immigrants that also learned english and paid taxes.


All the way from the beginning?  (smallpox laced blankets and all, huh?)



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Mr Khan said:
leatherhat said:
Mr Khan said:
leatherhat said:
Mr Khan said:
Interesting that in *some* cases the original intent of the constitution is irrelevant to modern application, and yet in others the wisdom of the founding fathers is sacrosanct


I assume you're talking about the amendment issues, in which case the founding fathers have nothing to do with it. It was a ploy by Northern statesman to make sure that come the next elections blacks would vote for them and overwhelm white southerners to give them control of the South. Its vote pandering written into the constitution. Vote pandering not unlike Obama is doing now. 

Vote pandering was Amendment 15 (which forced the more convuluted variants of Jim Crow voting rules into effect). Amendment 14 resolved most of the other legal irregularities of the war, mostly to make sure the treacherous Southerners couldn't cock-block the changes that had already been made by force.

Or are we saying that the Founding Fathers are inherently superior to any who came after them?


Well they are certainly superior to the people behind reconstruction, which was an abject failure in almost every way possible. 

Only because they weren't punitive enough. The political will to really grind it in to the South and effect real cultural change was lost, and the Democrats forced Hayes to weasel out of it in exchange for the presidency due to the disputed election of 1876

The radicals weren't given enough free reign there

They weren't punative enough?  The South STILL hasn't recovered from reconstruction.

The problem was they were TOO punative because of the assassanation of Lincoln who wanted to take things easier.

You can't change culture via government intervention.



snakenobi said:
DarthVolod said:

I said "drastically reduce" not "eliminate" the military. Yes, the U.S. has enemies, but nothing on the scale that would justify the current size of the U.S. military.

are you kidding,theere are big problems under the bed.

also to maintain USA's economic status,they have to keep other countries down or US wealth be at risk in the long term

 

What "big problems?" What exactly are you referring to when you say "keep other countries down?" Kind of vague here.

 

This is not World War II or even the Cold War era. There is no logic behind the U.S. military bases scattered across the globe except to, as you pointed out, create more enemies.

thats the problem that USA's economics and military aid each other

 

How so? Military spending has been a part of the deficit just like everything else. The U.S. military is just another branch of the government which, like the rest of it, is not in the business of generating wealth ... only wasting it on wars and ect.

 

Your opinion on porn actors is a generalization which is beside the point. Porn actors can, if abused by co-stars or other staff, report the problem to the authorities.

but the problem isn't that,its the effect on culture.

young people try to do this kind of things as they think of it as THE thing

and that creates cultural problems

 

From what I have learned, most young people don't exactly aspire to becoming prostitutes / porn stars when they grow up. Even if this were the case, that is none of my concern. There are many things young people can do which, in my opinion, create problems (excessive drinking, smoking, ect.) yet many of these activities are perfectly legal. Don't confuse legalization with encouragement

 

Prostitution is different. I don't think anyone would argue that legalization of prostitution would make the practice less safe.

its not about being safe,its USA's emphasis on freedom that causes problem and now its also effecting the whole world cause of global economy

Don't really understand what you are trying to say here. The U.S.A.'s emphasis on freedom was one of its greatest qualities ... how exactly is "freedom" negative again?

 

 

Whether or not one should even become a prostitute or porn star in the first place is irrelevant.This is a matter of rights in that a woman (or man) ought to be allowed to utilize their property (our bodies being the first property we aquire) for whatever purpose they so desire so long as they consent to it, and there is no initiation of force against another person.

that right is worldwide applicable but you don't see places where edication and culture are taken care of.

u won't see the same degradation of women in europe,aussie,china

 

What? Just because there are places that don't respect the rights of women it does not mean that we have to accept their same standard. Again, I am not exactly sure what you are saying here.


At least, be consistent ... if we have no rights over our own bodies then abortion should be illegal as well as pretty much everything else we do with our bodies like practice free speech, pursue happiness, and so on.

not talking about rights but how culture,education and rights correlate

 

I am talking about rights first and formost, but with a rational understanding of rights (which is what I am trying to present as best as I can) there will be a positive effect in culture and education in some respects.








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NinjaguyDan said:
The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
Fuck you if you can't take it.


what?

stop jsut going with that sentence and understand the meaning

 

US wasn't a nation,it was just an undiscovered continent then people immigrated to it to form a nation.it wasn't a nation before

being ingorant and just going with it isn't gonna solve anything



DarthVolod said:
snakenobi said:
DarthVolod said:

What "big problems?" What exactly are you referring to when you say "keep other countries down?" Kind of vague here.

Lime the ones we don't hear in the mainstream media.do you think US's influence over middleeast doesn't bring any rebillion

How so? Military spending has been a part of the deficit just like everything else. The U.S. military is just another branch of the government which, like the rest of it, is not in the business of generating wealth ... only wasting it on wars and ect.

how old are you?

war profiteerting,ecnomic slavery are  key to USA's capitalistic economy

do you think europe and USA just enjoy their good lifestyles just like that?

 

From what I have learned, most young people don't exactly aspire to becoming prostitutes / porn stars when they grow up.

well you have to understand that income inequalities and class based country that US is going into and the teenage naiveness does force people

"from what i have learned?"

what do you mean by that.i was talking about teenage not super young people and also people that don't come from whealthy or cultural background which is missing very much with US's freedom on everything


 

Even if this were the case, that is none of my concern. There are many things young people can do which, in my opinion, create problems (excessive drinking, smoking, ect.) yet many of these activities are perfectly legal. Don't confuse legalization with encouragement

yeah those problems also are same,that the soceity glorifies these acts and young teens just take it to be part of the crowd

 

Don't really understand what you are trying to say here. The U.S.A.'s emphasis on freedom was one of its greatest qualities ... how exactly is "freedom" negative again?

people confuse right to freedom with to do anything and to be different and whatever comes to mind,jsut do it without thinking of future

freedom is good but not to the extent where things go out of control like the US economy keeps getting fucked every 8-10 years because of this type of soceity.

 

What? Just because there are places that don't respect the rights of women it does not mean that we have to accept their same standard. Again, I am not exactly sure what you are saying here.

i am talking about accepting the same standards.i am talking about the things that force women to go towards this professions


I am talking about rights first and formost, but with a rational understanding of rights (which is what I am trying to present as best as I can) there will be a positive effect in culture and education in some respects.

yeah in some respect but fall in the other

its like letting gay marriages and also glorify them isn't gonna be good for the soceity

gay people will say everything should be allowed,no children's produced when they are 60 years old who is gonna run the soceity









DeathToIran24 said:

A nation of LEGAL immigrants that also learned english and paid taxes.


LOL

So you think all the slaves ancestors of the current black population came here legally ?



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

Ail said:
DeathToIran24 said:

A nation of LEGAL immigrants that also learned english and paid taxes.


LOL

So you think all the slaves ancestors of the current black population came here legally ?

Yes?

They didn't come here morally....

but legally, sure.



sethnintendo said:

The way to fight illegal immigration would be to go after the businesses and fine them more than the slap on the wrist they get now.  The idea of making all 11 million illegal immigrants legal is pure idiotic.  It was done under Reagan and that didn't solve anything.  Most of the thinking seems to just try and patch the problem rather than address it with actual solutions.  Crying that it is unfair to break families apart when they are breaking the law is about as dumb as fighting the war on drugs.


Funny but I don't see a lot of "legal" american willing to do the jobs most illegal immigrants do.

I guess they are too busy crying about illegal immigration to go look out for jobs......



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !