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Forums - General - Confused white guy attacks government building in Norway with massive bomb and shoot up a youth camp - at least 87 dead.

sapphi_snake on 25 July 2011
Kasz216 said:

Basically what the kids at columbine did.  They got the idea, and planned it out for a while, and eventually executed it.  It's quite normal for it to be planned.  The planning phase makes them feel a little better in itself.  It's like when people escalate into serial killers.

Did they write a manifesto about their political ideals for society, start their own terrorist chain with recruits in several countries, and plan further attakcs, including the assassionation of politcal leaders and bombing of nuclear powerplants? The guy even planned to purchase weapons of mass destruction. He essentially wants to start a "revolution". This is much more than a lunatic that goes off killing people.



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Lostplanet22 on 25 July 2011

A manifest counting 1500 pages, full with information about politicians that should be stopped...locations to attack and etc....

It is just also strange that this would happen in Norway considering it has one of the lowest Muslim populations in West Europe in fact their are less Muslims in whole Norway than that their are in Amsterdam/Brussels and maybe Stockholm..



 

Antabus on 25 July 2011

I was on that guys mailing list for some reason. That was pretty shocking.

Not as shocking as that manifest, that stuff is really scary. You should really take a look at it.



Kasz216 on 25 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Basically what the kids at columbine did.  They got the idea, and planned it out for a while, and eventually executed it.  It's quite normal for it to be planned.  The planning phase makes them feel a little better in itself.  It's like when people escalate into serial killers.

Did they write a manifesto about their political ideals for society, start their own terrorist chain with recruits in several countries, and plan further attakcs, including the assassionation of politcal leaders and bombing of nuclear powerplants? The guy even planned to purchase weapons of mass destruction. He essentially wants to start a "revolution". This is much more than a lunatic that goes off killing people.

Considering they were kids were were against bullying.  No.

Though connections to terrorist groups and manifestos are not uncommon.

And your missing the point that a revolution is EXACTLY what a spree killer wants.

They want to kill people overthrow society and prove to themselves that they aren't powerless and can make a change in society.

Hence why they all pretty much believe "I'll be thanked by later generations."

They see their actions as the starting point and the breaking point of a revolution against those viewed as keeping them down.



sapphi_snake on 25 July 2011
Lostplanet22 said:
A manifest counting 1500 pages, full with information about politicians that should be stopped...locations to attack and etc....

It is just also strange that this would happen in Norway considering it has one of the lowest Muslim populations in West Europe in fact their are less Muslims in whole Norway than that their are in Amsterdam/Brussels and maybe Stockholm..

I actually think there are more muslims in Romania than in Norway. I wonder how many muslims this guy even met. From my experience such people rarely even interact with the groups they hate.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Around the Network
sapphi_snake on 25 July 2011
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Basically what the kids at columbine did.  They got the idea, and planned it out for a while, and eventually executed it.  It's quite normal for it to be planned.  The planning phase makes them feel a little better in itself.  It's like when people escalate into serial killers.

Did they write a manifesto about their political ideals for society, start their own terrorist chain with recruits in several countries, and plan further attakcs, including the assassionation of politcal leaders and bombing of nuclear powerplants? The guy even planned to purchase weapons of mass destruction. He essentially wants to start a "revolution". This is much more than a lunatic that goes off killing people.

Considering they were kids were were against bullying.  No.

Though connections to terrorist groups and manifestos are not uncommon.

And your missing the point that a revolution is EXACTLY what a spree killer wants.

They want to kill people overthrow society and prove to themselves that they aren't powerless and can make a change in society.

Hence why they all pretty much believe "I'll be thanked by later generations."

They see their actions as the starting point and the breaking point of a revolution against those viewed as keeping them down.

Couldn't this be extended then to any revolution?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

leatherhat on 25 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Lostplanet22 said:
A manifest counting 1500 pages, full with information about politicians that should be stopped...locations to attack and etc....

It is just also strange that this would happen in Norway considering it has one of the lowest Muslim populations in West Europe in fact their are less Muslims in whole Norway than that their are in Amsterdam/Brussels and maybe Stockholm..

I actually think there are more muslims in Romania than in Norway. I wonder how many muslims this guy even met. From my experience such people rarely even interact with the groups they hate.

According to him, quite a few. Both as friends and bullies.



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Kasz216 on 25 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Basically what the kids at columbine did.  They got the idea, and planned it out for a while, and eventually executed it.  It's quite normal for it to be planned.  The planning phase makes them feel a little better in itself.  It's like when people escalate into serial killers.

Did they write a manifesto about their political ideals for society, start their own terrorist chain with recruits in several countries, and plan further attakcs, including the assassionation of politcal leaders and bombing of nuclear powerplants? The guy even planned to purchase weapons of mass destruction. He essentially wants to start a "revolution". This is much more than a lunatic that goes off killing people.

Considering they were kids were were against bullying.  No.

Though connections to terrorist groups and manifestos are not uncommon.

And your missing the point that a revolution is EXACTLY what a spree killer wants.

They want to kill people overthrow society and prove to themselves that they aren't powerless and can make a change in society.

Hence why they all pretty much believe "I'll be thanked by later generations."

They see their actions as the starting point and the breaking point of a revolution against those viewed as keeping them down.

Couldn't this be extended then to any revolution?

Nah, though paranoid spree killers no probably are a part of revolutions.

Even most revolutions don't usually have too many events like this.  Well not until after a while and the fighting has unhinged more and more peoiple.

Also there is a difference in well... reality.  Whether or not the gripes are real, and a significant portion of the people are behind them etc.

Though I'm sure there have been spree killers who were able to "hide" their crimes by co-opting "real" causes.

For example, the war crimes that are often committed by lower ranking soldiers who kill and rape innocent people or officers who order such things.

Luckily, those stressors largely go away, and while cause other long lasting problems are at least gone.



vlad321 on 25 July 2011
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:


The question is very simple really. If you removed the ridiculous amount of arms produced for general consumption, and not police/military use, would there have been less deaths or more than if there are now in the US. Guaranteed there will alwayse be people that find a gun, however if there are just less, sginificantly less, guns overall it would be much more tricky. Can you tell me beyond any significant doubt that if guns were not produced as much, there would be more, not less, casualties?

As for humans being human, it's much easier to run away from a knife than a projectile weapon.


Yes we can say that beyond any significant doubt.

Do you know how many guns are already exist in the country?

Or really ANY country.

You know, this guy did get his hands on a Machine gun.... in norway.


Really? Japan.

Well actually shooting deaths in japan have risen quite a bit and there is general worry that they are going to end up with everyone else...

but lets just grant your premise.

Ok, it will work in exactly one country, which isn't the country we are currenty in.  Congradulations?

A country so restricted it's near impossible to own guns for sport.

And a country that has a low crime rate in general due to cultural factors.

Cultural factors being the reason why intercountry comparisons are the best to use.


I thought that was the whole point of the arument.  I was also under the impression that it's crime rates weren't all that much higher than countries that are not the US, like England. You also proceed tot say that culture plays into it, and I agree, however I would venture to claim that the culture has been more affected by the fact that there are just so many guns around, not the other way around.



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Kasz216 on 25 July 2011
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:
Kasz216 said:
vlad321 said:


The question is very simple really. If you removed the ridiculous amount of arms produced for general consumption, and not police/military use, would there have been less deaths or more than if there are now in the US. Guaranteed there will alwayse be people that find a gun, however if there are just less, sginificantly less, guns overall it would be much more tricky. Can you tell me beyond any significant doubt that if guns were not produced as much, there would be more, not less, casualties?

As for humans being human, it's much easier to run away from a knife than a projectile weapon.


Yes we can say that beyond any significant doubt.

Do you know how many guns are already exist in the country?

Or really ANY country.

You know, this guy did get his hands on a Machine gun.... in norway.


Really? Japan.

Well actually shooting deaths in japan have risen quite a bit and there is general worry that they are going to end up with everyone else...

but lets just grant your premise.

Ok, it will work in exactly one country, which isn't the country we are currenty in.  Congradulations?

A country so restricted it's near impossible to own guns for sport.

And a country that has a low crime rate in general due to cultural factors.

Cultural factors being the reason why intercountry comparisons are the best to use.


I thought that was the whole point of the arument.  I was also under the impression that it's crime rates weren't all that much higher than countries that are not the US, like England. You also proceed tot say that culture plays into it, and I agree, however I would venture to claim that the culture has been more affected by the fact that there are just so many guns around, not the other way around.

That kinds shows a complete lack of understanding how powerful culture is.

There are short tempered people in this world who are short tempered because they're lineage can be traced back a few hundred years to scottish ancestors in a certain part of scotland that they didn't even know they had.   See... well outliers again... and "Cultures of Honour."

Japan has .86 homicides & homicide attempts per 1,000 people.

The UK has 1.28 homides (Not counting attempts) per 1,000 people.

Not sure exactly what the rate of success in homicides is...

but it'd have to be pretty high for them to be that near each other.

The aforementioned Israel is at 2.1 counting both Homicides and attempted homicides.

Which is equal to New Zealand.  Which i'd guess is pretty restrictive on the gunlaws.

 

Japan's crime rates are extremely low compaired to just about anyone.  Which is good considering how harshly titled the justice system is AGAINST the accused.

 

The UK is actually a GREAT example though.

UK and Wales gun crime?  Below average for the EU.

Northern Ireland and Scotland?  Above average.

Same strict gun laws.

Scotland and N. Irelands homicide rates are also 50% higher then England & Wales.

This despite Scotland actually being the most liberal part of the UK.

Why?  Culture.  Long past culture.