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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can a movement similar to fascism emerge in the US?

 

Can a movement similar to fascism emerge in the US?

Yes 67 56.78%
 
No 21 17.80%
 
Not a "movement sim... 27 22.88%
 
Total:115
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:


Wrong.

Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.

Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.

Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.

Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.

Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.

I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government


God doesn't exist.


if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...? 



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

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osamanobama said:
FinalEvangelion said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government

Welcome to general politics. And in your country your rights are given by the Government. No religion is promoted, nor any deity endorsed.


perhaps you should read up on our founding documents. religion is an entegril part of it. and they specifically say our rights are God given. not by government, becasue gevernment is made up of men, and if the rights are given by man, they can be taken away.

ps: separation of church and state isnt in our constitution, no where.

the first amendment was made to protect religion from government. also did you know it is lawful for states to have a state religion. also its not freedom from religion (which you would very much like to have, well really only christianity). its freedom of religion. 


So you think Atheism should be illegal then?  Or have no part in American society? 


no, but i also dont think it should be getting preferential treatment, like in our schools. the first amendment has in our society become freedom FROM religion, in everything, especially Christianity. it goes both way, and it the past 40 or so years, there has been a movement to remove all religion, which is not the intent of the 1st amendment


Your desire for everyone to be a Christian and to have to live by its imaginary god's laws is emblematic of a drive towards fascism.



MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:


Wrong.

Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.

Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.

Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.

Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.

Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.

I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government


God doesn't exist.


if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...? 


Well, in the big picture of things if you're talking about some generic deistic God, then I don't have any proof that such a god doesn't exist other than the fact that if there was one you would think that it would show itself in some fashion which it has never done.

 If on the other hand you're implying as most people seem to do and as Osamanobama was that that "God" is Yahweh and that Yahweh was the father of Jesus and the creator of everything in the universe and all people must follow his laws or go to Hell some day, then I would consider the fact that since Yahweh was just a literary invention of the Bible's J author and based upon a hodgepodge of other earlier Egyptian and Mesoptamian Gods, then I would say that that is definitive proof that God meaning Yahweh the God of Judeao-Christianity  and Islam and that most American Conservatives claim is God definitely doesn't exist.



Here's an alternative (having just watched a movie on peak oil theory)

What if peak oil occurred, then a political movement arose to build up the government's influence to guarantee seizure of oil and natural gas resources from other countries?

If a political group presented the choice of "Fascism or give up all your consumer goods and go live on the farm," people would choose fascism



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

EdHieron said:
We already have a movement similar to fascism in the US. It's called Fundamentalist Christianity and as Republican / Tea Party types continue to gain more power in the US over the next couple of years, we're going to see a rise in its insidious influence on our culture as well.


you do realize, overthing the tea party sands for is the polar opposite to Fascism.

also all tea party rallies have been extremely peaceful. but nice try bub. you would have a greater chance of finding violent people  wanting a dictatorship type government at a greenpeace or anti-war rally



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EdHieron said:
MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:


Wrong.

Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.

Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.

Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.

Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.

Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.

I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government


God doesn't exist.


if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...? 


Well, in the big picture of things if you're talking about some generic deistic God, then I don't have any proof that such a god doesn't exist other than the fact that if there was one you would think that it would show itself in some fashion which it has never done.

 If on the other hand you're implying as most people seem to do and as Osamanobama was that that "God" is Yahweh and that Yahweh was the father of Jesus and the creator of everything in the universe and all people must follow his laws or go to Hell some day, then I would consider the fact that since Yahweh was just a literary invention of the Bible's J author and based upon a hodgepodge of other earlier Egyptian and Mesoptamian Gods, then I would say that that is definitive proof that God meaning Yahweh the God of Judeao-Christianity  and Islam and that most American Conservatives claim is God definitely doesn't exist.



i would agree so far as to say that should god exist he is not likely to be as described in the texts of those religions.

but i dont see how it was all that relevant to his point and that you just wanted a god argument.  its easily interpreted in a secular and agreeable way.  every human at (i would say conception but we can go with birth for the sake of this topic) has basic human rights.  that those rights dont cease to exist or change just because some government says so.    these rights should be the base of how society works and that, for example, creating things to the effect of "the right to not be offended by someone" by politicians to gain votes withing certain communities is obscene.



"I like my steaks how i like my women.  Bloody and all over my face"

"Its like sex, but with a winner!"

MrBubbles Review Threads: Bill Gates, Jak II, Kingdom Hearts II, The Strangers, Sly 2, Crackdown, Zohan, Quarantine, Klungo Sssavesss Teh World, MS@E3'08, WATCHMEN(movie), Shadow of the Colossus, The Saboteur

osamanobama said:
EdHieron said:
We already have a movement similar to fascism in the US. It's called Fundamentalist Christianity and as Republican / Tea Party types continue to gain more power in the US over the next couple of years, we're going to see a rise in its insidious influence on our culture as well.


you do realize, overthing the tea party sands for is the polar opposite to Fascism.

also all tea party rallies have been extremely peaceful. but nice try bub. you would have a greater chance of finding violent people  wanting a dictatorship type government at a greenpeace or anti-war rally


Any time you find people wanting to "put God back in charge of everything everything" you find a group of fascists.  And the only reason most Conservative candidates one their elections in 2010 was due to the Evangelical votes that they received, so yes that is evidence of a fascist movement in our society influencing public policy.



MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:


Wrong.

Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.

Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.

Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.

Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.

Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.

I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government


God doesn't exist.


if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...? 


Well, in the big picture of things if you're talking about some generic deistic God, then I don't have any proof that such a god doesn't exist other than the fact that if there was one you would think that it would show itself in some fashion which it has never done.

 If on the other hand you're implying as most people seem to do and as Osamanobama was that that "God" is Yahweh and that Yahweh was the father of Jesus and the creator of everything in the universe and all people must follow his laws or go to Hell some day, then I would consider the fact that since Yahweh was just a literary invention of the Bible's J author and based upon a hodgepodge of other earlier Egyptian and Mesoptamian Gods, then I would say that that is definitive proof that God meaning Yahweh the God of Judeao-Christianity  and Islam and that most American Conservatives claim is God definitely doesn't exist.



i would agree so far as to say that should god exist he is not likely to be as described in the texts of those religions.

but i dont see how it was all that relevant to his point and that you just wanted a god argument.  its easily interpreted in a secular and agreeable way.  every human at (i would say conception but we can go with birth for the sake of this topic) has basic human rights.  that those rights dont cease to exist or change just because some government says so.    these rights should be the base of how society works and that, for example, creating things to the effect of "the right to not be offended by someone" by politicians to gain votes withing certain communities is obscene.


pretty, much this. (though i due believe the only God is described in texts, but thats beside the point like you said).

i believe he just wanted to go on some anti-religion (anti-christianity) rant, even though my posts larger points had little to do with it, and much more with big oppressive Governments that like to censor people, and the history of where some political movements rose



EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
EdHieron said:
We already have a movement similar to fascism in the US. It's called Fundamentalist Christianity and as Republican / Tea Party types continue to gain more power in the US over the next couple of years, we're going to see a rise in its insidious influence on our culture as well.


you do realize, overthing the tea party sands for is the polar opposite to Fascism.

also all tea party rallies have been extremely peaceful. but nice try bub. you would have a greater chance of finding violent people  wanting a dictatorship type government at a greenpeace or anti-war rally


Any time you find people wanting to "put God back in charge of everything everything" you find a group of fascists.  And the only reason most Conservative candidates one their elections in 2010 was due to the Evangelical votes that they received, so yes that is evidence of a fascist movement in our society influencing public policy.

so you dont know what a fascist is, then.

why are you here?

edit: also you arent very good at judging politic climates and determining factors of elections, are you? the results of the election had little to due with Christianity, and every thing to due with back lash to an ever increasing size of goverment, its control of their lives, taxes, debt, etc



MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:


Wrong.

Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.

Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.

Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.

Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.

Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.

I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).

liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.

and in our country our rights are God given, not by government


God doesn't exist.


if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...? 


Well, in the big picture of things if you're talking about some generic deistic God, then I don't have any proof that such a god doesn't exist other than the fact that if there was one you would think that it would show itself in some fashion which it has never done.

 If on the other hand you're implying as most people seem to do and as Osamanobama was that that "God" is Yahweh and that Yahweh was the father of Jesus and the creator of everything in the universe and all people must follow his laws or go to Hell some day, then I would consider the fact that since Yahweh was just a literary invention of the Bible's J author and based upon a hodgepodge of other earlier Egyptian and Mesoptamian Gods, then I would say that that is definitive proof that God meaning Yahweh the God of Judeao-Christianity  and Islam and that most American Conservatives claim is God definitely doesn't exist.



i would agree so far as to say that should god exist he is not likely to be as described in the texts of those religions.

but i dont see how it was all that relevant to his point and that you just wanted a god argument.  its easily interpreted in a secular and agreeable way.  every human at (i would say conception but we can go with birth for the sake of this topic) has basic human rights.  that those rights dont cease to exist or change just because some government says so.    these rights should be the base of how society works and that, for example, creating things to the effect of "the right to not be offended by someone" by politicians to gain votes withing certain communities is obscene.


It's relevant in that Osamanobama was saying that his God Yahweh is supposed to be in charge of everything in the US and that universities that teach evolution are anti-Yahweh (when there is no real reason to be Pro Yahweh aka "God") and that Osamanobama is emblematic of the types of people that think Fox News a station with a heavy Pro God / Yahweh bias is fair and balanced.  As the pro Yahweh crowd are the ones in danger of leading this country down the road to fascism or totalitarianism.

I find it obsence when public policies are made that prevent others from being able to have all of the personal freedoms that they should have like not allowing women to be in charge of their own bodies, supporting one faction (or two) factions in The Middle East when all three sides are to blame and none of them any more right in their beliefs than Yanammanno tribesman fighting in the South American jungle over which one is more magical and being allowed to jeapordize the whole world while doing so because the Christians, Jews, and Muslems have more potent spears than the Yanammano, or denying others the right to do things that would harm no one else and that should be their rights as much as anyone else's -- gay marriage -- due to the bigoted teachings in a book that lost most of its claim to be any kind of a reliable source long ago.