MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
MrBubbles said:
EdHieron said:
osamanobama said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
sapphi_snake said:
mrstickball said:
Wrong.
Modern day conservatives want liberty and freedom - but primarily for market sectors, and not personal sectors. That is 'conservative' as most nations have had less regulation/economic controls in the past, thus they want to 'conserve' this. Likewise, most personal freedoms have been restricted in the past, thus want to 'conserve' it.
Likewise, modern day liberals want the opposite of this - market restrictions and personal freedoms.
|
Well, economic liberalism is only a small part of overall liberalism. Overall conservatives still don't care much for freedom or liberty.
|
Given that you've never held a job, run a business, or hired anyone, I believe you don't know enough about the subject to make such an assertion.
Economic liberty to those that work, employ people, or run a business is just as valid as those that engage in personal liberties. Furthermore, heavily liberal ideologies also support redistribution of all workers' incomes in various fashions means that they are directly pre-empting your work with their own views of where your livelihood should go. Additionally, it means in some cases, you may or may not buy certain goods or services to which they deem are improper for society (such as fatty food taxes, wage and salary caps by economic sector, price controls). These things are just as egregious as the state deciding who you can marry, what you can say in a public domain, what you may smoke or drink, and the like.
|
I actually don't think they're on the same level. And if I have to choose, I'll choose the side that's defending what I care about more. Still, conservatives are hardly liberal even in economic matters. They're the chief opponents of things like legalizing drugs or prostitution, and unlike liberals who give somewhat compelling reasons for things they want to restrict/ban something, conservatives base their arguments on irrational things like religion (basically their dislike of personal freedoms extends in the economical sphere also).
|
liberals (in america) are completely inconsistant in what they value as rights, it constintly changes in order to gain a bigger voter base. they pander and change just so they can get votes.
and in our country our rights are God given, not by government
|
God doesn't exist.
|
if you are going to make such definitive statements on the subject you must have definitive proof...?
|
Well, in the big picture of things if you're talking about some generic deistic God, then I don't have any proof that such a god doesn't exist other than the fact that if there was one you would think that it would show itself in some fashion which it has never done.
If on the other hand you're implying as most people seem to do and as Osamanobama was that that "God" is Yahweh and that Yahweh was the father of Jesus and the creator of everything in the universe and all people must follow his laws or go to Hell some day, then I would consider the fact that since Yahweh was just a literary invention of the Bible's J author and based upon a hodgepodge of other earlier Egyptian and Mesoptamian Gods, then I would say that that is definitive proof that God meaning Yahweh the God of Judeao-Christianity and Islam and that most American Conservatives claim is God definitely doesn't exist.
|
i would agree so far as to say that should god exist he is not likely to be as described in the texts of those religions.
but i dont see how it was all that relevant to his point and that you just wanted a god argument. its easily interpreted in a secular and agreeable way. every human at (i would say conception but we can go with birth for the sake of this topic) has basic human rights. that those rights dont cease to exist or change just because some government says so. these rights should be the base of how society works and that, for example, creating things to the effect of "the right to not be offended by someone" by politicians to gain votes withing certain communities is obscene.
|
It's relevant in that Osamanobama was saying that his God Yahweh is supposed to be in charge of everything in the US and that universities that teach evolution are anti-Yahweh (when there is no real reason to be Pro Yahweh aka "God") and that Osamanobama is emblematic of the types of people that think Fox News a station with a heavy Pro God / Yahweh bias is fair and balanced. As the pro Yahweh crowd are the ones in danger of leading this country down the road to fascism or totalitarianism.
I find it obsence when public policies are made that prevent others from being able to have all of the personal freedoms that they should have like not allowing women to be in charge of their own bodies, supporting one faction (or two) factions in The Middle East when all three sides are to blame and none of them any more right in their beliefs than Yanammanno tribesman fighting in the South American jungle over which one is more magical and being allowed to jeapordize the whole world while doing so because the Christians, Jews, and Muslems have more potent spears than the Yanammano, or denying others the right to do things that would harm no one else and that should be their rights as much as anyone else's -- gay marriage -- due to the bigoted teachings in a book that lost most of its claim to be any kind of a reliable source long ago.
