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Forums - General Discussion - Bible prophecy coming true - A One World Religious/ Economic/ Government System

Final-Fan on 14 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Final-Fan said:

3.  If you want to play it that way, basing your argument on the fact that a food chain goes like 1-2-3 corn-cows-humans, then I could easily argue that getting rid of corn would not doom humans (although it would hurt us).  Your extrapolating that into ALL POSSIBLE PLANT LIFE and still only humans on the other end is what makes you silly. 
4.  Yes, really.  The fact that we prop up the corn food chain for our own benefit is irrelevant to the fact that it is still a food chain.  Just because it would collapse if we disappeared doesn't matter.  "Don't deserve" has nothing to do with the matter at hand. 
5.  There are differing opinions on the amount.  I found data indicating that it's 50% of total photosynthesis instead of 75% of total oxygen supply (including absorption and waterfalls/waves/etc.).  And if all the plants disappeared I bet algae would pick up a lot of the slack; of course there would still be a massive animal holocaust. 

3. Corn does not occupy an entire level of the food chain by itself (being domesticated it would be hard to put corn on any level of the food chain BTW). Getting rid of an entire level would possibly doom us, but not just one part of that level, because there would still be other lifeforms on that level (humans occupy an entire level by themselves).
4. What's a "corn food chain"? There's only one food chain (that of Earth), and it's hard to find a place for corn on it. The fact that corn isn't really a prodcut of nature of also quite important.
5. 50% of photosynthesis does not imply 50% oxygen supply. Plants are the chief producers of algae. IF plants disappeared, algae could not pick up the slack for them (unless their populations increased by 75%, which is unlikely, as they would become a huge source of food for aquatic life, and would actually get eaten much quicklier).

3.  A food chain is technically a linear progression of ONE species eating ONE other species until you get to the top where nothing normally kills and eats the hawk or the human or whatever.  A food WEB is more what I think you are thinking, like a food chain only showing more stuff, which could potentially be all the creatures on Earth.  Of course, food webs ignore decomposers that eat all the already dead stuff including the top predators. 

4.  See 3.  A corn food chain goes, Corn--humans (we prop it up by making sure the corn grows and not letting other things eat the corn) or corn--cows--humans (ditto the cows).  The fact that we prop them up does not make them not food chains. 

I would now like to reiterate that the fact that you do not consider us part of "nature" is validating Kasz's point.  Unless you choose to argue that it simply proves you are biased and uneducated and therefore automatically assume human superiority

5.  a.  I know that.  50%P is LESS THAN 50%O, and 50%P cannot POSSIBLY be 75%O, therefore there are wildly varying estimates of that figure, which was my point. 
b.  Plants are not the chief producers of algae, and may or may NOT do more photosynthesis (and therefore produce more oxygen) than algae. 
c.  If plants disappeared, algae would face much less competition, the algae population might well explode unless as you say animals kept it down too much to do so. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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sapphi_snake on 14 July 2011
Final-Fan said:

3.  A food chain is technically a linear progression of ONE species eating ONE other species until you get to the top where nothing normally kills and eats the hawk or the human or whatever.  A food WEB is more what I think you are thinking, like a food chain only showing more stuff, which could potentially be all the creatures on Earth.  Of course, food webs ignore decomposers that eat all the already dead stuff including the top predators. 

4.  See 3.  A corn food chain goes, Corn--humans (we prop it up by making sure the corn grows and not letting other things eat the corn) or corn--cows--humans (ditto the cows).  The fact that we prop them up does not make them not food chains. 

I would now like to reiterate that the fact that you do not consider us part of "nature" is validating Kasz's point.  Unless you choose to argue that it simply proves you are biased and uneducated and therefore automatically assume human superiority

5.  a.  I know that.  50%P is LESS THAN 50%O, and 50%P cannot POSSIBLY be 75%O, therefore there are wildly varying estimates of that figure, which was my point. 
b.  Plants are not the chief producers of algae, and may or may NOT do more photosynthesis (and therefore produce more oxygen) than algae. 
c.  If plants disappeared, algae would face much less competition, the algae population might well explode unless as you say animals kept it down too much to do so. 

3. Decomposers don't eat predators. They eat carcases.I was also thinking more of a pyramid.

4. I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature. You not only cannot read, you are also incredibly rude. Hoesntly, why do I even waste my time with an individual like yourself, I do not know.

5. Plants DO produce more oxygen than algae  And the algae population wouldn't boom, because they'd become the chief resource of food.

(PS: Green algae are considered to be plants )



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Final-Fan on 14 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Final-Fan said:

3.  A food chain is technically a linear progression of ONE species eating ONE other species until you get to the top where nothing normally kills and eats the hawk or the human or whatever.  A food WEB is more what I think you are thinking, like a food chain only showing more stuff, which could potentially be all the creatures on Earth.  Of course, food webs ignore decomposers that eat all the already dead stuff including the top predators. 

4.  See 3.  A corn food chain goes, Corn--humans (we prop it up by making sure the corn grows and not letting other things eat the corn) or corn--cows--humans (ditto the cows).  The fact that we prop them up does not make them not food chains. 

I would now like to reiterate that the fact that you do not consider us part of "nature" is validating Kasz's point.  Unless you choose to argue that it simply proves you are biased and uneducated and therefore automatically assume human superiority

5.  a.  I know that.  50%P is LESS THAN 50%O, and 50%P cannot POSSIBLY be 75%O, therefore there are wildly varying estimates of that figure, which was my point. 
b.  Plants are not the chief producers of algae, and may or may NOT do more photosynthesis (and therefore produce more oxygen) than algae. 
c.  If plants disappeared, algae would face much less competition, the algae population might well explode unless as you say animals kept it down too much to do so. 

3. Decomposers don't eat predators. They eat carcases.I was also thinking more of a pyramid.

4. I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature. You not only cannot read, you are also incredibly rude. Hoesntly, why do I even waste my time with an individual like yourself, I do not know.

5. Plants DO produce more oxygen than algae  And the algae population wouldn't boom, because they'd become the chief resource of food.

(PS: Green algae are considered to be plants )

3.  Carcasses ... of predators.  Pyramid would be more of a food web.  http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/foodchain/
Note that you can't automatically place humans at the top (quaternary consumers -- other food webs only count to tertiary).  Humans that are vegetarians would be primary consumers.  Actually I think very few humans would be quaternary consumers, as most of us eat cows and other herbivores, so we'd be secondary consumers. 

(Oh and I forgot to address an earlier statement you made:  corn is a producer, just like grass.  It just doesn't go on "normal" food chains that describe wildlife.  Not many people care about the food chain of farms and cities.)

4. 
"The fact that corn isn't really a prodcut of nature of also quite important."
"I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature."
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH?!
Humans produce corn.  If nature does not produce corn, humans are not part of nature. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

sapphi_snake on 15 July 2011
Final-Fan said:

3.  Carcasses ... of predators.  Pyramid would be more of a food web.  http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/foodchain/
Note that you can't automatically place humans at the top (quaternary consumers -- other food webs only count to tertiary).  Humans that are vegetarians would be primary consumers.  Actually I think very few humans would be quaternary consumers, as most of us eat cows and other herbivores, so we'd be secondary consumers. 

(Oh and I forgot to address an earlier statement you made:  corn is a producer, just like grass.  It just doesn't go on "normal" food chains that describe wildlife.  Not many people care about the food chain of farms and cities.)

4. 
"The fact that corn isn't really a prodcut of nature of also quite important."
"I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature."
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH?!
Humans produce corn.  If nature does not produce corn, humans are not part of nature. 

Humans are part of nature. technology isn't.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Final-Fan on 15 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Final-Fan said:

(Oh and I forgot to address an earlier statement you made:  corn is a producer, just like grass.  It just doesn't go on "normal" food chains that describe wildlife.  Not many people care about the food chain of farms and cities.)

"The fact that corn isn't really a prodcut of nature of also quite important."
"I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature."
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH?!
Humans produce corn.  If nature does not produce corn, humans are not part of nature. 

Humans are part of nature. technology isn't.

If we are part of nature, how can what we do be unnatural? 

Or, to avoid going too far off topic, how is corn technology?  We've been growing corn since the Bronze Age.  It wasn't created by genetic engineering, just breeding.  It's just evolution, only with the human race putting its thumb on the scale for accelerated growth in the direction we like.  How does that make corn "not part of nature" if humans are part of nature? 

If there was a plant that we hadn't extensively bred -- that we just found and liked as is -- and grew THAT everywhere instead of corn, how would that be more natural? 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

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ASStronaut on 15 July 2011

Religion is the opium of the people.

They are all addicts, addicted to crap.



Wii U Nintendo Network ID, Borode

XBOX Live ID, Borode

sapphi_snake on 15 July 2011
Final-Fan said:
sapphi_snake said:
Final-Fan said:

(Oh and I forgot to address an earlier statement you made:  corn is a producer, just like grass.  It just doesn't go on "normal" food chains that describe wildlife.  Not many people care about the food chain of farms and cities.)

"The fact that corn isn't really a prodcut of nature of also quite important."
"I don't uderstand where you got the ideea that I don't consider humans to be part of nature."
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH?!
Humans produce corn.  If nature does not produce corn, humans are not part of nature. 

Humans are part of nature. technology isn't.

If we are part of nature, how can what we do be unnatural? 

Or, to avoid going too far off topic, how is corn technology?  We've been growing corn since the Bronze Age.  It wasn't created by genetic engineering, just breeding.  It's just evolution, only with the human race putting its thumb on the scale for accelerated growth in the direction we like.  How does that make corn "not part of nature" if humans are part of nature? 

If there was a plant that we hadn't extensively bred -- that we just found and liked as is -- and grew THAT everywhere instead of corn, how would that be more natural? 

It's human manipulation, not nature doing it's business. That plant would be more "natural", because it's success is due to nature. That plant came to be on it's own, and can survive on it's own. In nature, lifeforms who cannot survive on their own die.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

WiseOwl on 15 July 2011

A good listener is a good learner and ignorance a bliss.



Final-Fan on 15 July 2011
sapphi_snake said:
Final-Fan said:

How is corn technology?  We've been growing corn since the Bronze Age.  It wasn't created by genetic engineering, just breeding.  It's just evolution, only with the human race putting its thumb on the scale for accelerated growth in the direction we like.  How does that make corn "not part of nature" if humans are part of nature? 

If there was a plant that we hadn't extensively bred -- that we just found and liked as is -- and grew THAT everywhere instead of corn, how would that be more natural? 

It's human manipulation, not nature doing it's business. That plant would be more "natural", because it's success is due to nature. That plant came to be on it's own, and can survive on it's own. In nature, lifeforms who cannot survive on their own die.

1.  So would you say that the crops that ants farm are also unnatural? 
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/04/farming-ants-update-their-crops.html

2.  But the "natural" crop still would be unsuited for many of the places we would be planting it, and die without us farming it.  So really it wouldn't be that much more "natural" than corn, which might still do well in some places even if we were not there to tend the crop. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom!