By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - What is your honest opinion on the Forza Franchise? Compeditor to GT?

sales2099 on 07 July 2011
dsage01 said:
coolbeans said:
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:
Dr.Grass said:
Jay520 said:
LOL, why did you bring this thread back to life?


Because GT5's graphics blow Forza out of the water.

Graphics? thats about the ONLY thing GT5 excells over Forza. The gap is small actually, especially with forza 4.

 

but overall, if release frequency and scores are anything to go by.....GT has clearly been knocked out of being the best of what it does

Dissecting the actual words of reviewers, they don't seem to agree.

And despite it's 84 Meta score, most in the industry would tell you that Forza isn't on GT's level (the same way Resistance nor Killzone are on Halo's level).

Not exactly a fair comparison when only one game out of those two Sony series' mentioned have been on "Halo's level" (if talking main iterations of Halo) : Killzone 2 with a 91 meta.

Metascore doesn't really mean shit. 84 was moslty due to continues delay's.

actually it was justified. 800 cars were ps2 models. Online modes were lacking compared to Forza 3. Car customization was inferior to Forza 2 levels of customization :P. lacking in community features, track detail, menus were clunky, and bland music. 

GT5 scored great for sim aspects....but was lacking seriously in the video game department. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Around the Network
sales2099 on 07 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:
CGI-Quality said:
coolbeans said:

I'm just trying to point out your point is seems moot anyway.  Whether either of those series are on or above Halo's level is subjective to the gamer playing those games. 

I don't see how you can have "Meta score" and "most of the industry" in the sentence contradicting each other.  With the two this-gen Forza games receiving a 90, 92 average on metacritic and the none of the GT's released this gen getting above an 84 meta, you'll have to define what you mean by "GT's level".  With numbers like that, you'll really need to pull some quotes in order to prove most of the industry's stance on the recent releases in the GT series.  If anything, I see Dirt and Forza mentioned more, as of late.

Well, that last sentence is a little contradictory (hard to argue against anecdote when you present some yourself)

In the end, I just don't think these Meta scores are enough to guarantee a sure-fire shift in market position. Yes, Forza has scored higher than the most recent GT titles (and I can see why in many areas), but what difference has that made? Listening to actual driving/racing enthusiasts tells you where GT stands in the industry and it doesn't seem like Metacritic has impacted that stance in any substantial way.


So your saying Forza doesnt have the sales of the GT series yet. Granted but every Forza sells more then the last, bundles or not while GT5 seems to be on the decline more or less with the series track record. 

Its overall the poor time span in between releases thats hurting GT the most. 5 years per game while Turn 10 keeps cranking out new 90+ forzas every 2 years. Eventually the fans are gonna get tired of waiting when theres a perfectly overall better package on the 360 that doesnt keep their fans waiting for great sims with boring video game aspects. 

Again, that "AAA" status hasn't done much to penetrate the GT name, making that element of debate meaningless. To most who bought it, GT5's 84 Meta score (which isn't even a bad score, all things considered) made little to no difference because the GT brand is big enough that it would take more than a few points down on Metacritic to have any substantial impact (which is why my other Meta score references apply). We can talk about what may/could eventually happen all we like, but that's a "what if" scenario and doesn't say much right now.

Bottom line; GT is a stronger, bigger brand than Forza. 90s vs 80s ("AAA" vs "AA") isn't changing much of that and while we're on the subject of sales declines, GT5 is currently sitting higher than it's predecessor in the same time frame (only bringing the franchise to a notable decline in one region - which is being offset in another).

The AAA vs AA status hasnt done much to penetrate the brand name, but is a element for debate amongst gamers on say...a internet forum. Whats better vs what the market thinks is better is two seperate things. On paper, Forza is now the better overall package. In practise, the real world still has GT in their minds due to the series when it was at its peak in the ps1/ps2 days. 

But again, even the most die hard GT fans will begin to be pissed off at namely the release time frames. 

2 years per AAA Forza vs 5 years for AA Gt game. 

At some point the fans are going to say enough is enough. GT is a great game but at what cost. We dont live forever. 5 years is a long time between releases. At least Turn 10 recognizes the limited life span of human beings :P ........and makes a overall better package at the same time. 

Forza 3 allready dethroned GT5.........Forza 4 should cement that theory even further....cause once again, Polphany Digital takes their sweet time. Too sweet. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

dsage01 on 07 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:

The AAA vs AA status hasnt done much to penetrate the brand name, but is a element for debate amongst gamers on say...a internet forum. Whats better vs what the market thinks is better is two seperate things. On paper, Forza is now the better overall package. In practise, the real world still has GT in their minds due to the series when it was at its peak in the ps1/ps2 days. 

But again, even the most die hard GT fans will begin to be pissed off at namely the release time frames. 

2 years per AAA Forza vs 5 years for AA Gt game. 

At some point the fans are going to say enough is enough. GT is a great game but at what cost. We dont live forever. 5 years is a long time between releases. At least Turn 10 recognizes the limited life span of human beings :P ........and makes a overall better package at the same time. 

Forza 3 allready dethroned GT5.........Forza 4 should cement that theory even further....cause once again, Polphany Digital takes their sweet time. Too sweet. 

Forza 3 hasn't dethroned anything. Those scores haven't changed anything, as GT fans still picked up the game and Forza 3 didn't gain any significant fanbase over it's 92 Meta score vs GT5's 84. Couple that with the fact that most reviews still say GT5 is better at driving simulation than Forza and your words are even more out of tune. Both are after sim fans and many more people continue to stick with GT.

Lastly, saying "at some point" is, again, an assumption (what if). Debating on that is pointless. Whether or not GT fans get tired of waiting (even though GT5 is the first in the series to take 5 years) remains to be seen. If GT5 is anything to go by, things don't seem to be changing in any big way (save for maybe Japan, where things seem to be changing for many franchises). If you've got something to the contrary outside of wild assumptions and theories, I'm all ears. Otherwise, you're seemingly arguing only on preference.

Okay so from now on Uncharted dethroned Halo. It doesn't have near as many online players or doesn't get as many sales but since it got a higher metascore than Halo Reach it offical dethroned it. Uncharted is now the better overall package because it got a 96 meta. That is preicley what you are trying to say. Despite getting a 92 meta Forza 3 got only a 175k in it's strongest region in a month. Whereas GT5 in the same region had earned 400k in a week. And 197k just in Canada! Despite GT5 having no launch hype it still sold 2 million something I doubt Halo or COD could do. And it still has amazing legs selling really well in the U.S. Just to let you know GT5 is overtracking GT4 by around a million and is predicted to sell over GT4. We still haven't got info from Polypony on how much it sold but we do know it sold a lot. Forza 3 got most of it's sales from bundles. If it really got sales we would see it on the preorder chart. And just by getting a higher metascore doesn't mean it's "dethroned". If Forza 3 were outselling GT5 it would "dethrone" it then. Or have a increasing fanbase which I do not see. GT5 is far more feutres than Forza 3 can even dream of so it doesn't matter if it takes 5 years or 2 years. It matters what the better game is. And it's going to take a long time for Forza to match up with GT. Possibly it just won't happen.



dsage01 on 07 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
dsage01 said:
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:

The AAA vs AA status hasnt done much to penetrate the brand name, but is a element for debate amongst gamers on say...a internet forum. Whats better vs what the market thinks is better is two seperate things. On paper, Forza is now the better overall package. In practise, the real world still has GT in their minds due to the series when it was at its peak in the ps1/ps2 days. 

But again, even the most die hard GT fans will begin to be pissed off at namely the release time frames. 

2 years per AAA Forza vs 5 years for AA Gt game. 

At some point the fans are going to say enough is enough. GT is a great game but at what cost. We dont live forever. 5 years is a long time between releases. At least Turn 10 recognizes the limited life span of human beings :P ........and makes a overall better package at the same time. 

Forza 3 allready dethroned GT5.........Forza 4 should cement that theory even further....cause once again, Polphany Digital takes their sweet time. Too sweet. 

Forza 3 hasn't dethroned anything. Those scores haven't changed anything, as GT fans still picked up the game and Forza 3 didn't gain any significant fanbase over it's 92 Meta score vs GT5's 84. Couple that with the fact that most reviews still say GT5 is better at driving simulation than Forza and your words are even more out of tune. Both are after sim fans and many more people continue to stick with GT.

Lastly, saying "at some point" is, again, an assumption (what if). Debating on that is pointless. Whether or not GT fans get tired of waiting (even though GT5 is the first in the series to take 5 years) remains to be seen. If GT5 is anything to go by, things don't seem to be changing in any big way (save for maybe Japan, where things seem to be changing for many franchises). If you've got something to the contrary outside of wild assumptions and theories, I'm all ears. Otherwise, you're seemingly arguing only on preference.

Okay so from now on Uncharted dethroned Halo. It doesn't have near as many online players or doesn't get as many sales but since it got a higher metascore than Halo Reach it offical dethroned it. Uncharted is now the better overall package because it got a 96 meta. That is preicley what you are trying to say. Despite getting a 92 meta Forza 3 got only a 175k in it's strongest region in a month. Whereas GT5 in the same region had earned 400k in a week. And 197k just in Canada! Despite GT5 having no launch hype it still sold 2 million something I doubt Halo or COD could do. And it still has amazing legs selling really well in the U.S. Just to let you know GT5 is overtracking GT4 by around a million and is predicted to sell over GT4. We still haven't got info from Polypony on how much it sold but we do know it sold a lot. Forza 3 got most of it's sales from bundles. If it really got sales we would see it on the preorder chart. And just by getting a higher metascore doesn't mean it's "dethroned". If Forza 3 were outselling GT5 it would "dethrone" it then. Or have a increasing fanbase which I do not see. GT5 is far more feutres than Forza 3 can even dream of so it doesn't matter if it takes 5 years or 2 years. It matters what the better game is. And it's going to take a long time for Forza to match up with GT. Possibly it just won't happen.

I think you meant to quote sales2099


lol yeah. 



sales2099 on 13 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:

The AAA vs AA status hasnt done much to penetrate the brand name, but is a element for debate amongst gamers on say...a internet forum. Whats better vs what the market thinks is better is two seperate things. On paper, Forza is now the better overall package. In practise, the real world still has GT in their minds due to the series when it was at its peak in the ps1/ps2 days. 

But again, even the most die hard GT fans will begin to be pissed off at namely the release time frames. 

2 years per AAA Forza vs 5 years for AA Gt game. 

At some point the fans are going to say enough is enough. GT is a great game but at what cost. We dont live forever. 5 years is a long time between releases. At least Turn 10 recognizes the limited life span of human beings :P ........and makes a overall better package at the same time. 

Forza 3 allready dethroned GT5.........Forza 4 should cement that theory even further....cause once again, Polphany Digital takes their sweet time. Too sweet. 

Forza 3 hasn't dethroned anything. Those scores haven't changed anything, as GT fans still picked up the game and Forza 3 didn't gain any significant fanbase over it's 92 Meta score vs GT5's 84. Couple that with the fact that most reviews still say GT5 is better at driving simulation than Forza and your words sound even further out of tune. Both are after sim fans and many more people continue to stick with GT.

Lastly, saying "at some point" is, again, an assumption (what if). Debating on that is pointless. Whether or not GT fans get tired of waiting (even though GT5 is the first in the series to take 5 years) remains to be seen. If GT5 is anything to go by, things don't seem to be changing in any big way (save for maybe Japan, where things seem to be changing for many franchises).

Regardless, if you've got something to the contrary outside of wild assumptions and theories, I'm all ears.


Huh.....a PS3 guy playing the sales card. Its truly rare to see after PS3 being 3rd place and sales of Halo and Gears of War titles making the sales of any major ps3 exclusive embarrassing by comparison. You sir, are a dying remnant of the ps2 era where it was common for sony fans to play the sales card :)

Its not about real world consumer opinion where Forza dethroned GT......its the on-paper objective quality aspect. Again....better driving sim....yet an inferior overall package. Thats my point: Forza is known at least to gamers that play both franchises as a better overall package. Forza dethroned GT.

Im also surprised you seem content with the embarrassing ratio of Forza releases to GT release time frames. Add to that Forza games just simply have more premium cars, online modes, tracks, customization options, etc. 

I really dont get GT fans. The franchise factually now releases 1 game for every 2 Forzas (3 Forzas come this october!). The game is now a AA franchise for clearly neglecting the VIDEO GAME aspect of the driving simulator.....because no matter how you slice it these are video games. 

And the only defence you can really say is that its a better sim (yet completely ignoring the entire package) the real world still buys GT more. Sales. From a sony fan. In this gen. Now ive seen everything :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Around the Network
sales2099 on 13 July 2011
dsage01 said:
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:

The AAA vs AA status hasnt done much to penetrate the brand name, but is a element for debate amongst gamers on say...a internet forum. Whats better vs what the market thinks is better is two seperate things. On paper, Forza is now the better overall package. In practise, the real world still has GT in their minds due to the series when it was at its peak in the ps1/ps2 days. 

But again, even the most die hard GT fans will begin to be pissed off at namely the release time frames. 

2 years per AAA Forza vs 5 years for AA Gt game. 

At some point the fans are going to say enough is enough. GT is a great game but at what cost. We dont live forever. 5 years is a long time between releases. At least Turn 10 recognizes the limited life span of human beings :P ........and makes a overall better package at the same time. 

Forza 3 allready dethroned GT5.........Forza 4 should cement that theory even further....cause once again, Polphany Digital takes their sweet time. Too sweet. 

Forza 3 hasn't dethroned anything. Those scores haven't changed anything, as GT fans still picked up the game and Forza 3 didn't gain any significant fanbase over it's 92 Meta score vs GT5's 84. Couple that with the fact that most reviews still say GT5 is better at driving simulation than Forza and your words are even more out of tune. Both are after sim fans and many more people continue to stick with GT.

Lastly, saying "at some point" is, again, an assumption (what if). Debating on that is pointless. Whether or not GT fans get tired of waiting (even though GT5 is the first in the series to take 5 years) remains to be seen. If GT5 is anything to go by, things don't seem to be changing in any big way (save for maybe Japan, where things seem to be changing for many franchises). If you've got something to the contrary outside of wild assumptions and theories, I'm all ears. Otherwise, you're seemingly arguing only on preference.

Okay so from now on Uncharted dethroned Halo. It doesn't have near as many online players or doesn't get as many sales but since it got a higher metascore than Halo Reach it offical dethroned it. Uncharted is now the better overall package because it got a 96 meta. That is preicley what you are trying to say. Despite getting a 92 meta Forza 3 got only a 175k in it's strongest region in a month. Whereas GT5 in the same region had earned 400k in a week. And 197k just in Canada! Despite GT5 having no launch hype it still sold 2 million something I doubt Halo or COD could do. And it still has amazing legs selling really well in the U.S. Just to let you know GT5 is overtracking GT4 by around a million and is predicted to sell over GT4. We still haven't got info from Polypony on how much it sold but we do know it sold a lot. Forza 3 got most of it's sales from bundles. If it really got sales we would see it on the preorder chart. And just by getting a higher metascore doesn't mean it's "dethroned". If Forza 3 were outselling GT5 it would "dethrone" it then. Or have a increasing fanbase which I do not see. GT5 is far more feutres than Forza 3 can even dream of so it doesn't matter if it takes 5 years or 2 years. It matters what the better game is. And it's going to take a long time for Forza to match up with GT. Possibly it just won't happen.

LOL nope. See your argument is meanignless by comaprison because uncharted 2 and Halo reach or 3 are both 90+ games. 90....93....96....95......whatever. Its all 90+. 

Forza is a confirmed 90+ franchise. GT is now been degraded to an 80+ franchise. Its been dethroned on-paper only. the real world perception is another story. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 14 July 2011




Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 14 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:


Huh.....a PS3 guy playing the sales card. Its truly rare to see after PS3 being 3rd place and sales of Halo and Gears of War titles making the sales of any major ps3 exclusive embarrassing by comparison. You sir, are a dying remnant of the ps2 era where it was common for sony fans to play the sales card :)

Its not about real world consumer opinion where Forza dethroned GT......its the on-paper objective quality aspect. Again....better driving sim....yet an inferior overall package. Thats my point: Forza is known at least to gamers that play both franchises as a better overall package. Forza dethroned GT.

Im also surprised you seem content with the embarrassing ratio of Forza releases to GT release time frames. Add to that Forza games just simply have more premium cars, online modes, tracks, customization options, etc. 

I really dont get GT fans. The franchise factually now releases 1 game for every 2 Forzas (3 Forzas come this october!). The game is now a AA franchise for clearly neglecting the VIDEO GAME aspect of the driving simulator.....because no matter how you slice it these are video games. 

And the only defence you can really say is that its a better sim (yet completely ignoring the entire package) the real world still buys GT more. Sales. From a sony fan. In this gen. Now ive seen everything :)

Your fist paragraph is usually the first sign of an argument that is weak.

Paragraph 2: For every gamer/person that you can find that says one is better, I can find just as many that say the opposite. Ergo, that means nothing.

Paragraph 3: I don't see what's so embarrassing about Forza having more current gen releases than GT. Gran Turismo 5 has a good deal of content, so it shouldn't require a sequel so soon. It's also the first in the series to take 5 years to develop.

Paragraph 4: Again, this is the first generation where GT has only seen one (full) release versus almost 3 now for Forza. But I'm curious, why does that matter? The PS1 & PS2 eras saw just 2 GT releases each.

Also, you ignored where I agreed that Forza 3 is the better choice for the modern racing fan (which hits at both your first and last paragraphs). I've only argued that many of the people you say have said that GT is "dethroned" (which I've yet to hear/see anyone say that outside of VG Chartz), still call it the best driving sim your money can buy on home consoles. For a lot of people, that's all that needs to be said, with the extra tidbits meaning very little.

Last paragraph: Just as irrelevant as the first paragraph (although this one truly exposes the weakness of your argument). I guess in the end, you really don't have anything outside of assumptions and theories (and now coded insults). Ironically, since you "just joined the site" and seem to think you know so much about me, I'm inclined to believe you aren't what you appear to be.

All you seem to have gotten out of this debate is talks of sales. There's no need to debate further with you.


Lol forgive the first and last paragraph then, you clearly are a educated fanboy that isnt easily baited :P

I can find people that say Forza is better and im sure you can find the same that say GT is better. But my point was that pro-Forza gamers have the Metascore on their side, a purely on-paper type of justification to say Forza is the better franchise. Not sim, franchise. Real world there is still a clear bias towards GT, largely due to its peak years on the ps1 and ps2. 

I personally think that when you look at the fast rate that Forza games come out this gen and they all come out AAA, I am merely wondering why fans such as yourself are content with your personal favourite franchise to take so long by comparison. The faster rate does give Forza the edge, simply because they update content AND dont keep the fans waiting. And to be honest its no secret GT5 lacks a lot of video game content that Forza 3 has and Forza 4 will build upon. Yes its the first to take 5 years but it seems a lot of things changed after PS3 released.

And this is purely me talking here.......I think "the real driving simulator" is kinda BS. Cause last I checked, the gameplay consists of racing other cars with the objective of winning. That sounds like racing to me. "Driving sims" consist of real world applications such as residential driving, urban driving, not racing, obeying the posted speed signs, giving other drivers the right of way. As far as im concerned, GT and Forza are both racing games. Driving is a form of racing so in that regard Forza is just as much a driving sim as GT is. Sorry if this seems way off base or condasending, it really isnt meant to be.

But as for the sales, I could technically say the combined sales of forza games released for the 360 surpass the combined full game releses of GT on PS3 this gen. Sure im pooling 2 (3 games come october) against one, but then again, thats PDs fault for slacking behind Turn 10 is making new games. Yes I realize Forza games are bundled but hey a sale is a sale. And irrelevant or not, its still comical to see a Sony fan talk sales this gen :)



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 on 16 July 2011
CGI-Quality said:
sales2099 said:

Lol forgive the first and last paragraph then, you clearly are a educated fanboy that isnt easily baited :P

I can find people that say Forza is better and im sure you can find the same that say GT is better. But my point was that pro-Forza gamers have the Metascore on their side, a purely on-paper type of justification to say Forza is the better franchise. Not sim, franchise. Real world there is still a clear bias towards GT, largely due to its peak years on the ps1 and ps2. 

I personally think that when you look at the fast rate that Forza games come out this gen and they all come out AAA, I am merely wondering why fans such as yourself are content with your personal favourite franchise to take so long by comparison. The faster rate does give Forza the edge, simply because they update content AND dont keep the fans waiting. And to be honest its no secret GT5 lacks a lot of video game content that Forza 3 has and Forza 4 will build upon. Yes its the first to take 5 years but it seems a lot of things changed after PS3 released.

And this is purely me talking here.......I think "the real driving simulator" is kinda BS. Cause last I checked, the gameplay consists of racing other cars with the objective of winning. That sounds like racing to me. "Driving sims" consist of real world applications such as residential driving, urban driving, not racing, obeying the posted speed signs, giving other drivers the right of way. As far as im concerned, GT and Forza are both racing games. Driving is a form of racing so in that regard Forza is just as much a driving sim as GT is. Sorry if this seems way off base or condasending, it really isnt meant to be.

But as for the sales, I could technically say the combined sales of forza games released for the 360 surpass the combined full game releses of GT on PS3 this gen. Sure im pooling 2 (3 games come october) against one, but then again, thats PDs fault for slacking behind Turn 10 is making new games. Yes I realize Forza games are bundled but hey a sale is a sale. And irrelevant or not, its still comical to see a Sony fan talk sales this gen :)

Put this together for a second - your name is SALES2099, yet you harp on me just mentioning GT's sales (which play a pivotal role in this discussion - but not the only thing I've argued), as some way to claim that "Sony fans are comical mentioning sales this gen". Not only is that confusing (as we're on a "sales" website, so talking about sales is what happens here - not to mention we're just talking about the software of two titles), but it seems to be the key factor in why you continue to quote me, like it bugs you that Gran Turismo continues to sell much more than a franchise who's current status is "AAA". No, sales don't prove quality or what's "better" necessarily, but Metacritic plays a far less role than you give it credit for. Outside of the internet, what has GT5's 84 Meta score vs Forza 3's 92 Meta score really done? Give me one example of a real world, substantial impact and I'll dial back on my argument.

Bottom line, for Forza to take anything from GT, as you seem to think it has, it would need to chip away substantially at it's fanbase, i.e. sales. Although it's continued to outscore GT throughout the gen, that doesn't seem to be changing anything, so it would need something else to do so; meaning it needs to outdo GT on GT's strongest point: simulation. At this time, it doesn't.

Lastly, if you don't want to sound condescending, don't post with insults.

Again sorry I just assume people know where im coming from sometimes. You probably havent seen what ive seen on other sites. I mostly get the "sales don't matter" line from sony fans when Halo or Gears games come out and by comparison wreck the numbers any ps3 exclusive can produce. 

But on topic I do agree that sales determines "the winner" or the relevance of a game. GT has more relevance as a IP no question. However due to Forza games releasing so quickly its combined sales on 360 surpass the sales of GT5 on ps3. 

Metacritic again has little impact on mass consumer perception but again.....in a gamer debate it plays a substantial role in determining the more quality franchise. 

Honestly, it does bug me about the sales of Forza. Its a clear example of not having the brand name having a direct impact on sales....cause we all know the quality is there. If it was called Forza Turismo 4 the sales would skyrocket....and the worst part is that would probably be true. 

It just seems its mostly about dealing with a dedicated fanbase that still remembers the peak days of GT 1-4. Some brand names just get so big that even if theres a hiccup in the series it wont matter in the slightest. Forza has the entire package going for it, and hopefully Forza 4 improves on the sim aspect as well. The fanbase issue is still a problem, but objectively speaking, on paper, Forza is the better rated overall package. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Jay520 on 16 July 2011
sales2099 said:


Lol forgive the first and last paragraph then, you clearly are a educated fanboy that isnt easily baited :P


Reported. Calling another member a fanboy and admitting to posting flambait.

I don't see how you haven't been banned yet.