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Forums - Nintendo - Iwata and Miyamoto: Wii caused the split between casual/core Wiiu will fix that

oniyide on 09 June 2011
Xen said:
So what I get from this is that Iwata & co. caved in to public pressure? Sure looks like they did.
How is it that they miss the fact that the third parties need them more than they need the third parties?

"Evolve", hah. They're just trying to capture both audiences, and as I see it now, this will only end up in alienating them.


no third parties dont need them, you want support for your console, you have to do things to get support for your console. Sony does it, MS does it, what makes Ninty so special that they thought they didnt need to do this. I for one am happy with this direction, they are taking, they are serious about getting 3rd party support



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Xen on 09 June 2011
oniyide said:
Xen said:
So what I get from this is that Iwata & co. caved in to public pressure? Sure looks like they did.
How is it that they miss the fact that the third parties need them more than they need the third parties?

"Evolve", hah. They're just trying to capture both audiences, and as I see it now, this will only end up in alienating them.


no third parties dont need them, you want support for your console, you have to do things to get support for your console. Sony does it, MS does it, what makes Ninty so special that they thought they didnt need to do this. I for one am happy with this direction, they are taking, they are serious about getting 3rd party support

They are heading toward ruin. They are trying to capture a userbase that has no interest whatsoever in their consoles.



Khuutra on 09 June 2011
LordTheNightKnight said:
Khuutra said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
The only split was between developers that like to make loads of graphics and cuts scenes, and gamers in general.


There are no "gamers in general", and there was definitely a buyer split - which, yes, was partially caused by developers, but only because about half the home console gamers on the planet followed the games they wanted to play. Pretending that the third parties don't know their own audience is preposterous, and it's even more preposterous to suggest that they don't go (too far) out of their way to serve that audience.


That's a very dubious number claim. (1)

And third paerties have been loosing money, and few games that sell with any legs, which does mean they don't know their audience. (2) Plus thinking they didn't go out of their way is the truth, or else they would have supported the Wii audience as well as the audiences on the other systems, instead of releasing games with increasing sameness, increasing budgets, and/or increasing development time, when the games with any legs have shown that is not what gamers want. (3)


1. Not really. Multi-console ownership tends to occur most often with owners of both a Wii and an HD system, if I remember Nintendo's own numbers on the matter, and it's not high enough to skew the numbers either way.

2. Here is a dubious claim. Lack of business acumen is not the same thing as failing to serve your audience - inefficient resource management is a different problem altogether, one Nintendo never had even at their most niche.

3. Here is a preposterous claim altogether. I said they go out of thheir way to serve [their] audience, and they do, often to the detriment of their bank accounts. This makes them stupid and servile together, but they are still servile, which is the point.

My original point stands: your statement that third parties moved away from "gamers in general" is bunk, unsupported, unsubstantiated, needlessly inflammatory, and lacking in the structure and reason necessary for a decent supposition, much less an argument.



Xxain on 09 June 2011

I find it absurd they really believe casual vs hardcore came from a fuckin reslution... are you kidding me?

Whelp I predict 3 way graphic whore competitions in the future as if it wasnt bad now..

NG3 release:

PS3 - " Our is better, the C3ll"
360 - " No Ours More Ram"
WII U - " Ours is cleary better My tablat says so"



Khuutra on 09 June 2011
sethnintendo said:
Khuutra said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
The only split was between developers that like to make loads of graphics and cuts scenes, and gamers in general.


There are no "gamers in general", and there was definitely a buyer split - which, yes, was partially caused by developers, but only because about half the home console gamers on the planet followed the games they wanted to play. Pretending that the third parties don't know their own audience is preposterous, and it's even more preposterous to suggest that they don't go (too far) out of their way to serve that audience.


I wonder why a lot of third party companies went under during this generation?  How come barely any third party companies are seeing profit right now?  If they knew their audience then you would think they would at least be able to make a profit.


Stupidity and servility are not mutually exclusive states of being.



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Khuutra on 09 June 2011
Xxain said:
I find it absurd they really believe casual vs hardcore came from a fuckin reslution... are you kidding me?

Whelp I predict 3 way graphic whore competitions in the future as if it wasnt bad now..

NG3 release:

PS3 - " Our is better, the C3ll"
360 - " No Ours More Ram"
WII U - " Ours is cleary better My tablat says so"


Christ, I'm surrounded on all sides, there are too many of you.

They're not talking about the resolution - when they refer to HD they refer to the parity in technological power that leads to that resolution, and thereafter to the other technological prettiness that (according to developers) caused the development split between the Wii and the HD consoles.

Now, in this case, HD does not mean the ability to output in HD resolution. HD means the ability to play a game like Gears of War or Uncharted 2 without the games having to be completely remade from scratch to accomodate the hardware.

Do

You

Dig it?



Zlejedi on 09 June 2011
oniyide said:
padib said:
oniyide said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Khuutra said:
LordTheNightKnight said:

but only because about half the home console gamers on the planet followed the games they wanted to play.

That's a very dubious number claim.

how is it a dubious claim?? HD consoles have a higher install base than Wii does. And the gamers dont want sameness, tell that to COD

oniyide, it doesn't work quite like that. Summing up the bases for PS3 and 360 don't give the HD installbase. Problem is many users have both or all 3 consoles (even you I think you mentioned). If you have all 3 consoles, that's 3 console sales for one customer. No I'd say the HD install base is at roughly 60 million at the moment, just throwing a number out there, but it's definitely not higher than 86M. Of that 60M, I expect only a fraction of that to be an active base, say 10 to 20M. I go by the game sales. Most games end up selling 2M units combined on the HD plats, mind you the taste variety in that base is so vast that you have to multiply that number by at least 10 different segments.


PS3 has 50 mil worldwide and 360 has 54, thats 104 to 86 for Wii. I see what your saying but lets be real here. most of the multiplat games are available to both PS360 and not Wii. THere called the HD twins for a reason. I was looking at it from the perspective of a third party. THe PS360 are so close to each in terms of dev kits and capabilities im sure when Valve trys to sell, Portal 2 there not looking at we need to sell this much on PS3 or 360, we need to sell this much period. Its not the devs fault that Ninty decided to make a system that would not be compatable with most games they were making. If i want to make an HD game i do have more to work with PS360. I have Wii and PS3, and while i prefer SOny over Ninty, if i was a Ninty fan i would still probably game on PS3 more, simply because they have those 3rd party games that are a no show on Wii


You are also forgetting pc userbase which has buying power at least at half of ps3 base further increasing attractiveness of hd twins.



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Soma on 09 June 2011

Some years ago when this Casual vs Hardcore BS started, Nintendo were the only ones refusing to use those words, saying everyone was a Gamer no matter the games they played.
It's sad to see they now talk like this =(



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Kenology on 09 June 2011
Mr Khan said:
It is disappointing to see them frame these ideas in industry terms. The Wii's effective declaration of independence from industry norms allowed them to go far, but with drawbacks in terms of an even deeper third party rejection than GameCube experienced

Now they're running a different game with different risks. They need Wii-like success in front-loading this thing with wide-appeal killer apps, and then they should get the third party parity necessary to carry them through software droughts, and then this device would become what the Wii should have been had the industry reoriented itself around it, but the risk of course is that they can't sell this idea to the mass market, then it's GameCube all over again

Though as a gamer i'd be fine with GameCube all over again, Nintendo is in a precarious position until they show what kinds of software they're putting out here

I couldn't agree more.



Killiana1a on 09 June 2011

OP got this right in the first line "one tablet to rule them all."

All of my attention to the WiiU has been on the controller. The controller has a 6.2 inch screen, speakers, a mic and is intended to be used to play WiiU games if the television is turned off.

I get this and I probe deeper. Nintendo moreso than any other gaming company, of late, has set trends when it comes to innovative controllers. The Wii remote and the way the player played the game with it was a revolutionary concept put into practice.

I think with smart phones, the iPad, and tablet PCs flooding the markets nowadays, the comparison of the WiiU controller to a tablet PC is a captain obvious.

Otherwise why outfit a controller with a mic and speakers?

If Nintendo is going to try and take a stab at the iPad and the entire tablet PC market, then they better get some apps and online connectivity for the WiiU controller.

Otherwise, if it is just a half-assed attempt at trying to replicate the novelty of the Wii Remote, then Nintendo is going to bomb bigger on the WiiU than they are currently doing with the 3DS.

As for the games and hardware of the WiiU console, I see no reason to buy one if one already has a comparable console in the Xbox 360 or PS3.

I believe (not predict) the WiiU console will be a tad more stronger in hardware than the Xbox 360, but not quite as powerful as the PS3.

If this is the new generation console, then I see no reason to buy one considering I already have an HD console and a Wii.