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Forums - Nintendo - WiiU not compatible with non-MotionPlus Wii remotes?

superchunk on 09 June 2011
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.


So you're saying that since classic controller isn't in the box its a bad deal even though the new controller and wiimote/nunchuk can do anything classic can?

You really don't make sense.

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

Personally, I'd want wiimote/nunchuk for every shooting game. Unless we're playing local split screen, then I'd want to ditch the TV and have two screen controllers.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.



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ShinmenTakezo on 09 June 2011
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.


So you're saying that since classic controller isn't in the box its a bad deal even though the new controller and wiimote/nunchuk can do anything classic can?

You really don't make sense.

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

Personally, I'd want wiimote/nunchuk for every shooting game. Unless we're playing local split screen, then I'd want to ditch the TV and have two screen controllers.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


To you I might not make sense, but thats ok, I'll keep trying to explain my position to you.

I gave you an example with the motion plus, so lets try something else.

Lets say the Wii was only capable of reading one wiimote and nunchuck at a time. Along with four classic controller pros.

I'm assuming the wiimote with motion plus isn't going to be packed in with the wiiu. So in my hypothetical statement the wii wouldn't come with a ccp. How many developers do you think would make games that used both control schemes? How many developers could emplement both control schemes so that neither had an advantage over the other in multiplayer? How many developers would support something that isn't packed in with the console? Not many, I assure you. Look at kinect, or move. Kinect can't move games unless they are bundled with the system, or a dance game (which isn't breaking any sales records!). Move doesn't sell games. Sony sells games with move functionality.

The thing is, if people heve to go out and buy something extra to play your game, you are limiting you customer base. Also developers aren't as likely to support it because they want their product to be accessable to as many people as possible. So either they don't support the accessory and save money or they spend extra money coding and testing for something that most likely wont sell many games.

If I'm wrong, why don't 3rd parties support nintendo, when you can use a classic controller pro on the wii? That means they could make the same exact games for the wii as they could for ps360. They don't because they know not everyone owns a ccp, but every wii owner has a wiimote.



ShinmenTakezo on 09 June 2011
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.

 

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


Also the wiimote will most likely not come with the system. When was the last time you bought a console with two controllers in the box?

WiiU's plethora of choice will hurt them in the end. Just like the Wii. Just because the hardware sells doesn't make it successful. Currently in gaming 3rd party support determines your success.



superchunk on 09 June 2011
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:


So you're saying that since classic controller isn't in the box its a bad deal even though the new controller and wiimote/nunchuk can do anything classic can?

You really don't make sense.

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

Personally, I'd want wiimote/nunchuk for every shooting game. Unless we're playing local split screen, then I'd want to ditch the TV and have two screen controllers.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


To you I might not make sense, but thats ok, I'll keep trying to explain my position to you.

I gave you an example with the motion plus, so lets try something else.

Lets say the Wii was only capable of reading one wiimote and nunchuck at a time. Along with four classic controller pros.

I'm assuming the wiimote with motion plus isn't going to be packed in with the wiiu. So in my hypothetical statement the wii wouldn't come with a ccp. How many developers do you think would make games that used both control schemes? How many developers could emplement both control schemes so that neither had an advantage over the other in multiplayer? How many developers would support something that isn't packed in with the console? Not many, I assure you. Look at kinect, or move. Kinect can't move games unless they are bundled with the system, or a dance game (which isn't breaking any sales records!). Move doesn't sell games. Sony sells games with move functionality.

The thing is, if people heve to go out and buy something extra to play your game, you are limiting you customer base. Also developers aren't as likely to support it because they want their product to be accessable to as many people as possible. So either they don't support the accessory and save money or they spend extra money coding and testing for something that most likely wont sell many games.

If I'm wrong, why don't 3rd parties support nintendo, when you can use a classic controller pro on the wii? That means they could make the same exact games for the wii as they could for ps360. They don't because they know not everyone owns a ccp, but every wii owner has a wiimote.

I think your unfairly cutting out things.

1. classic controller (and pro) is pretty much identical to PS360, so coding for it on a 3rd party game is really no additional cost. Regardless if it comes in the package or not.

2. There is no way a wiimote/nunchuk won't be in the standard box. Its part of the default controller along with the new screen considering that at the moment Nintendo isn't even sure if WiiU will be capable of running more than one screen at a time.

3. The only difference is making games work with wiimote/nunchuk and/or screen controller (which is really just screen as rest of buttons are same).

Its just not a big deal. They include the controls they've already built for Ps360 (minor tweek if clickable stick is used) and then make new controls for newer control options that are standard one WiiU.

However, when a game costs tens of millions to make and the hardware is now mostly the same so making it cross platform is marginal, spending a few thousand more making controls work for its standard options (wiimote/screen controller), its a no-brainer.



superchunk on 09 June 2011
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.

 

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


Also the wiimote will most likely not come with the system. When was the last time you bought a console with two controllers in the box?

WiiU's plethora of choice will hurt them in the end. Just like the Wii. Just because the hardware sells doesn't make it successful. Currently in gaming 3rd party support determines your success.


Every game Nintendo showed use a wiimote. There is no way it will not be in the box. Cost for it is very minimal at this point. Hell Japan is now including two in the box.

Plus, Wii was successful and the reason it didn't have 3rd party support had 1% to do with controls and 99% to do with lacking raw power.



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ShinmenTakezo on 09 June 2011
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
 


So you're saying that since classic controller isn't in the box its a bad deal even though the new controller and wiimote/nunchuk can do anything classic can?

You really don't make sense.

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

Personally, I'd want wiimote/nunchuk for every shooting game. Unless we're playing local split screen, then I'd want to ditch the TV and have two screen controllers.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


To you I might not make sense, but thats ok, I'll keep trying to explain my position to you.

I gave you an example with the motion plus, so lets try something else.

Lets say the Wii was only capable of reading one wiimote and nunchuck at a time. Along with four classic controller pros.

I'm assuming the wiimote with motion plus isn't going to be packed in with the wiiu. So in my hypothetical statement the wii wouldn't come with a ccp. How many developers do you think would make games that used both control schemes? How many developers could emplement both control schemes so that neither had an advantage over the other in multiplayer? How many developers would support something that isn't packed in with the console? Not many, I assure you. Look at kinect, or move. Kinect can't move games unless they are bundled with the system, or a dance game (which isn't breaking any sales records!). Move doesn't sell games. Sony sells games with move functionality.

The thing is, if people heve to go out and buy something extra to play your game, you are limiting you customer base. Also developers aren't as likely to support it because they want their product to be accessable to as many people as possible. So either they don't support the accessory and save money or they spend extra money coding and testing for something that most likely wont sell many games.

If I'm wrong, why don't 3rd parties support nintendo, when you can use a classic controller pro on the wii? That means they could make the same exact games for the wii as they could for ps360. They don't because they know not everyone owns a ccp, but every wii owner has a wiimote.

I think your unfairly cutting out things.

1. classic controller (and pro) is pretty much identical to PS360, so coding for it on a 3rd party game is really no additional cost. Regardless if it comes in the package or not.

2. There is no way a wiimote/nunchuk won't be in the standard box. Its part of the default controller along with the new screen considering that at the moment Nintendo isn't even sure if WiiU will be capable of running more than one screen at a time.

3. The only difference is making games work with wiimote/nunchuk and/or screen controller (which is really just screen as rest of buttons are same).

Its just not a big deal. They include the controls they've already built for Ps360 (minor tweek if clickable stick is used) and then make new controls for newer control options that are standard one WiiU.

However, when a game costs tens of millions to make and the hardware is now mostly the same so making it cross platform is marginal, spending a few thousand more making controls work for its standard options (wiimote/screen controller), its a no-brainer.

How am I unfairly cutting things out?

1. I agree. But why isn't it done? I already told you why, I want to know your reason why.

2.Wrong. They won't put a wiimote in because no new system ever comes packed with two different control schemes in one box. Never been done. I highly doubt nintendo will be the first to do it. Nintendo already basically told us the wiiu can only handle one screen at a time.

3.Did you forget the touch screen? how do you replicate that with a wiimote? Also the wiiu controller has more usable while playing buttons than a wiimote.

Like I said before, if it's not a big deal, why hasn't it been done for the wii?



ShinmenTakezo on 09 June 2011
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.

 

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


Also the wiimote will most likely not come with the system. When was the last time you bought a console with two controllers in the box?

WiiU's plethora of choice will hurt them in the end. Just like the Wii. Just because the hardware sells doesn't make it successful. Currently in gaming 3rd party support determines your success.


Every game Nintendo showed use a wiimote. There is no way it will not be in the box. Cost for it is very minimal at this point. Hell Japan is now including two in the box.

Plus, Wii was successful and the reason it didn't have 3rd party support had 1% to do with controls and 99% to do with lacking raw power.

The reason wii doesn't have 3rd party support is 100% because of the control scheme. You don't remember the crap ports coming to the wii when they had some 3rd party support? If the ccp was packed in with the wii from day 1, they would be in 3rd party heaven right now.



BoneArk on 09 June 2011

I'm confused. I have four Wii remotes and two motion plus attachments.

Should I buy 4 Wii remote plus or just two motion plus attachments?
Will a Wii remote w/ motion plus attachment not work on the Wii U?



                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

theRepublic on 09 June 2011
BoneArk said:
I'm confused. I have four Wii remotes and two motion plus attachments.

Should I buy 4 Wii remote plus or just two motion plus attachments?
Will a Wii remote w/ motion plus attachment not work on the Wii U?

Don't worry about it for now.  All Wii accessories will work with the Wii U.



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superchunk on 09 June 2011
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
superchunk said:
ShinmenTakezo said:
This puts limits on developers and doesn't bode well for a ton of 3rd party support. Nintendo isn't making the right choices with this console. They are forcing developers to make games either with no local multiplayer or co-op, or make a motion control game if you want local multiplayer or co-op. Nintendo can do without more shovelware. They need to ditch the screen and make a traditional controller.


read my post above,... all wii accessories work.


That has nothing to do with my statement. Let me explain.

Accessories are just that.......accessories. They don't come packed in with the system. That means not every one who buys the system will own it. Which in turn limits the amount of content that utilizes said accessory. Which leads to developers not supporting the accessory al la wii motion plus. There aren't a ton of games that require one on the wii. Developers would have to go to extra lenghts to code for something someone might or might not be using for their game. It's not worth it to a lot of developers.

 

Wiimote/nunchuk will be in the box with the new screen controller. This is the only bundle that makes sense to keep the standard setup. With that setup there does not exist a game that cannot be played and even expanded based on the controller choice.

WiiU is a plethora of choice.


Also the wiimote will most likely not come with the system. When was the last time you bought a console with two controllers in the box?

WiiU's plethora of choice will hurt them in the end. Just like the Wii. Just because the hardware sells doesn't make it successful. Currently in gaming 3rd party support determines your success.


Every game Nintendo showed use a wiimote. There is no way it will not be in the box. Cost for it is very minimal at this point. Hell Japan is now including two in the box.

Plus, Wii was successful and the reason it didn't have 3rd party support had 1% to do with controls and 99% to do with lacking raw power.

The reason wii doesn't have 3rd party support is 100% because of the control scheme. You don't remember the crap ports coming to the wii when they had some 3rd party support? If the ccp was packed in with the wii from day 1, they would be in 3rd party heaven right now.


ok, I'm not going to continue this with you. You assertion that it had to do with controls is just crazy and by extension kills the rest of our discussion. It has everything to do with the fact that devs woudl require all new engines to make games work on Wii and they didn't see the value in that as they believe these games wouldn't sell much on Wii anyways as PS360 versions would be far superior. Granted the million CoD gets each year would prove them wrong, but whatever.