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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo Is More Brilliant Then I Thought

Viper1 on 01 June 2011
brazylianwisnia said:
Viper1 said:

No, the comparison is not valid at all.

The Wii had no shaders, SD resolutions, and 2001 era performance.  That's a major difference.  You are looking at Project Cafe having the same shaders, the same resolutiosn and only a 1-2 year performance difference.  It's like PS2 to Xbox.  Not Wii to PS3.


But do you know the specs?I don't,neither do you so I just said that it depends what is the plan for Cafe.Do they plan to make it with DX 10 and a little more powerful than PS3 with controllers with HD touch screen for 299$-349$ price point or do they want to make the best performance possible for a console with controllers as it's rumored for 499$.

I believe expecting GPU more powerful from 2-3 year old PC GPU is nothing insane.Especialy that it will cost to produce around 50-60$.Sony said they won't invest 2bilion$ fo developing another CPU or GPU.They will just go to Intel and Nvidia and make deal with them.I think we can expect the BD(not nothing new) so the costs of the drive will be 30$ not 150$ like when PS3 started so I believe if they will be targeting 400-449$ target price point than 130$ CPU and 130$ GPU is resonable and now it's more than enough to produce GTX580 so think how it will change in 1,5-2 years from now.

You are still missing the point.  You said that is will be just like the Wii to PS3 all over again.  That's wrong even if Project Cafe is just as powerful as PS3 itself.  The simple fact that it will have modern shaders and the same output resolutiosn changes the entire game with publishers and developers.

It then becomes like the PC market where PC's range from high end to middle to low end yet games are still easily supported across all of them.   With the Wii, the architecture, fixed function TEV instead of modern shaders and SD resolution all kept developers from being able to use the same game assets across all 3 consoles.   This time, even if Project Cafe is only as powerful as the PS3, game code and assets can be shared across all consoles.

And by the way, Sony will still stick with IBM for the CPU.  They bought back the Cell manufacturing plant from Toshiba last year.  Would be silly to move to Intel when they can simply manufacturer their own upgraded Cell.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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TruckOSaurus on 01 June 2011
brazylianwisnia said:

@glimmer_of_hope

Sorry but i don't see it as you.For me Nintendo is releasing 7th generation console cause being on par with PS3 in terms graphics(in best scenario 2 times more powerful) don't give them anything.PS3/X360 will be cheaper then Cafe and will offer massive libriary of games so it will hold Cafe from selling and in 2012/2013 PS4 and X3 will come being 15-30 times more powerful than Cafe so i believe that Cafe will be stuck like Dreamcast did.Being more powerful than PS3/X360 but also being crushed by PS4/X3.Cafe will be most powerful only for a year and no one will make games to fully use it's capabilities for 2mln owners.Also i don't see Nintendo catching core gamers cause they will never make 1st party exclusives to compete with God of War,Gears of War,Gran Turismo,Halo or Uncharted.They will never make games with shiny graphics or for adult target only.

The underline made me laugh... a lot, I'd be willing to take my first ever VGC bet that PS4 or X3 won't be anywhere near 15 to 30 times as powerful as Cafe.



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Play4Fun on 01 June 2011
brazylianwisnia said:
Viper1 said:
brazylianwisnia said:

 
 

No, the comparison is not valid at all.

The Wii had no shaders, SD resolutions, and 2001 era performance.  That's a major difference.  You are looking at Project Cafe having the same shaders, the same resolutiosn and only a 1-2 year performance difference.  It's like PS2 to Xbox.  Not Wii to PS3.


But do you know the specs?I don't,neither do you so I just said that it depends what is the plan for Cafe.Do they plan to make it with DX 10 and a little more powerful than PS3 with controllers with HD touch screen for 299$-349$ price point or do they want to make the best performance possible for a console with controllers as it's rumored for 499$.

I believe expecting GPU more powerful from 2-3 year old PC GPU is nothing insane.Especialy that it will cost to produce around 50-60$.Sony said they won't invest 2bilion$ fo developing another CPU or GPU.They will just go to Intel and Nvidia and make deal with them.I think we can expect the BD(not nothing new) so the costs of the drive will be 30$ not 150$ like when PS3 started so I believe if they will be targeting 400-449$ target price point than 130$ CPU and 130$ GPU is resonable and now it's more than enough to produce GTX580 so think how it will change in 1,5-2 years from now.


Neither Nintendo nor Sony use DirectX. Rumours have already given us possible specs that make Cafe much more powerful than PS3.

There will be no HD  screen. You are talking about old rumours and ignoring newer more reliable ones.

I do not believe we will get $500 consoles. Consoles before this gen launched at $300 or less.

It seems consoles are getting  a bit more expensive but all Sony and MS would get with $500 consoles are really slow starts because of consoles that are too expensive.

The most I expect are $400, maybe $450 if they're willing to push their luck.



Goodlife on 01 June 2011

The next big jump in system performance (like the PS2 - PS3) will come when super HD comes out.

There is no point in the consoles being that much better again, without the displays to support it.

If the PS4 / 720 is going to be released in the next 5 years, then we aren't going to get that leap



TruckOSaurus on 01 June 2011
brazylianwisnia said:


the same as PS3/X360 is 20-30 times more powerful than Wii.Nintendo won't make high end console.Console cycles were 5 years in the past and always next gens were around 30 times more powerful then their predecesors and with 7-8 years now i see it up to 30 times and depends on it will Cafe be on par with PS3 or 2 times more powerful(which could have been done in 2007) the PS4 will be 15 to 30 times more powerful.

Seems likes the fun never stops!



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Mr Khan on 01 June 2011
brazylianwisnia said:
Mr Khan said:
KhinRunite said:
brazylianwisnia said:
TomaTito said:

Adult games? Have a look at this article

Sorry for misunderstanding.by adults I think about main target for every company 20-25 year,no children,living with parents,working with budget of 800-1000$ monthly to spend on whatever he/she wants.

Oh my God. How I wish I have that much excess money monthly. I don't normally feel insecure but lol...

Don't i know it. I'm in that age range and i have maybe that budget to spend on games a year, and usually a bit less than that...

but are you working full time,live with parents,no kids?cause i live in Poland, i earn a little above 1,500$ monthly,have no kids,live with parents and I spend 150$ on food,100$ on fuel,100$ to parents on bils(electricity,water,internet,TV),15$ on mobile calls and I have around 1100$ on my spendings monthly in Poland so in USA for example can't be worse,right?

Live with parents, college student, and August 2010 was the last time i had a job, and a technically-illegal, sub-minimum wage job at that, so i am a bit more constrained on that front



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

brazylianwisnia on 01 June 2011
Viper1 said:
brazylianwisnia said:
Viper1 said:

No, the comparison is not valid at all.

The Wii had no shaders, SD resolutions, and 2001 era performance.  That's a major difference.  You are looking at Project Cafe having the same shaders, the same resolutiosn and only a 1-2 year performance difference.  It's like PS2 to Xbox.  Not Wii to PS3.


But do you know the specs?I don't,neither do you so I just said that it depends what is the plan for Cafe.Do they plan to make it with DX 10 and a little more powerful than PS3 with controllers with HD touch screen for 299$-349$ price point or do they want to make the best performance possible for a console with controllers as it's rumored for 499$.

I believe expecting GPU more powerful from 2-3 year old PC GPU is nothing insane.Especialy that it will cost to produce around 50-60$.Sony said they won't invest 2bilion$ fo developing another CPU or GPU.They will just go to Intel and Nvidia and make deal with them.I think we can expect the BD(not nothing new) so the costs of the drive will be 30$ not 150$ like when PS3 started so I believe if they will be targeting 400-449$ target price point than 130$ CPU and 130$ GPU is resonable and now it's more than enough to produce GTX580 so think how it will change in 1,5-2 years from now.

You are still missing the point.  You said that is will be just like the Wii to PS3 all over again.  That's wrong even if Project Cafe is just as powerful as PS3 itself.  The simple fact that it will have modern shaders and the same output resolutiosn changes the entire game with publishers and developers.

It then becomes like the PC market where PC's range from high end to middle to low end yet games are still easily supported across all of them.   With the Wii, the architecture, fixed function TEV instead of modern shaders and SD resolution all kept developers from being able to use the same game assets across all 3 consoles.   This time, even if Project Cafe is only as powerful as the PS3, game code and assets can be shared across all consoles.

And by the way, Sony will still stick with IBM for the CPU.  They bought back the Cell manufacturing plant from Toshiba last year.  Would be silly to move to Intel when they can simply manufacturer their own upgraded Cell.


Modern shaders?you watched Unreal 3.95 tech demo?that are modern shadows for next gens.But consoles aren't PCs.

Because can you play Crisis 2 with PS3 graphics with 2x6800Ultra and 256MB RAM?You can't even run it.On consoles every thing have to be optimized 100% for 1 and only hardware specs othrwise it can't handle it.So even making game for X360 and PS3 is very difficult and they are very similiar in terms of performance.If it will be as Wii to PS3 than it's like makeing two diffrent games even with similiarity of resolution but i'm not saying it will be like this.i said two variants.but if it will be in par with next gens it will very expensive because of controllers.and remember that for streaming and procesing 4 HD pictures to controllers it will have to reserve 10-20% of procesing power.Also Nintendo proved that on their system are selling only Nintendo games so it do not encourages the 3rd parties.i believe that Cafe will recieve tuned up ports from HD twins for a year or 2 and than either it will be to expensive or inferior and first option will be very bad for casuals and other(inferior power) to core gamers so i do not believe that it will blow the competition.At best it will sell as Wii but even this has realy low chance.

Do not take me wrong I will probably buy Cafe just for next Mario and Zelda like i always do with Nintendo consoles but from my point i think they choose too expensive controllers which will be around 100$ to make for one.and with that option they can't make high-end console with these controllers with price point below 499$.



brazylianwisnia on 01 June 2011
Goodlife said:

The next big jump in system performance (like the PS2 - PS3) will come when super HD comes out.

There is no point in the consoles being that much better again, without the displays to support it.

If the PS4 / 720 is going to be released in the next 5 years, then we aren't going to get that leap

But are you talking about technologichal jump or eye graphics jump.Because in technichal jump today high end PC if it would be made into consoles than jump would be huge but not in terms of your personal graphics feeling.



brazylianwisnia on 01 June 2011
Mr Khan said:
brazylianwisnia said:
Mr Khan said:
KhinRunite said:
brazylianwisnia said:
TomaTito said:

Adult games? Have a look at this article

Sorry for misunderstanding.by adults I think about main target for every company 20-25 year,no children,living with parents,working with budget of 800-1000$ monthly to spend on whatever he/she wants.

Oh my God. How I wish I have that much excess money monthly. I don't normally feel insecure but lol...

Don't i know it. I'm in that age range and i have maybe that budget to spend on games a year, and usually a bit less than that...

but are you working full time,live with parents,no kids?cause i live in Poland, i earn a little above 1,500$ monthly,have no kids,live with parents and I spend 150$ on food,100$ on fuel,100$ to parents on bils(electricity,water,internet,TV),15$ on mobile calls and I have around 1100$ on my spendings monthly in Poland so in USA for example can't be worse,right?

Live with parents, college student, and August 2010 was the last time i had a job, and a technically-illegal, sub-minimum wage job at that, so i am a bit more constrained on that front

but for all companies like Nike,Sony,Apple etc the target is 20-25 year full time working and because of young age most of that people live with parents and do not have own families.I'm after the master degree(that's how it called in english?) and i  love every new high end device so i supose i'm perfect customer for big companies



brazylianwisnia on 01 June 2011
padib said:
brazylianwisnia said:

Also Nintendo proved that on their system are selling only Nintendo games so it do not encourages the 3rd parties.

Nintendo games sell in scales more than 3rd party games do, but 3rd party software sales on Wii are comparable to most 1st party software sales on the competing consoles (and sales of exclusive titles), that is near to 1M global.


brazylianwisnia said:

 think they choose too expensive controllers which will be around 100$ to make for one.

I made a thread detailing the cost of the controller based on rumor yes, but also based on an informed idea of what the hardware architecture might actually be like to achieve what the rumors describe. It might not be as expensive to manufacture as you may think.


if we are talking about HD screen 6" than costs are about 60-70$ for screen.