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Forums - Gaming - Graphics vs Aesthetics

Very VERY good video and it is informative to those that don't seem to realize a game like NSMB Wii looks better than Terminator Salvation...



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It's true certainly.

Graphics doesn't even necessarily advance aesthetics. The aesthetic of FFVI would not be improved, and would possibly be made worse if the graphical engine was better. However the aesthetic of Crysis (which was a great aesthetic) relied on a much more advanced graphical engine.

A stronger graphical engine allows you to make different aesthetics. Not necessarily better ones.



Rath said:

It's true certainly.

Graphics doesn't even necessarily advance aesthetics. The aesthetic of FFVI would not be improved, and would possibly be made worse if the graphical engine was better. However the aesthetic of Crysis (which was a great aesthetic) relied on a much more advanced graphical engine.

A stronger graphical engine allows you to make different aesthetics. Not necessarily better ones.


You know that the less powerful an engine is the less can be done with it? A more powerful engine can only help. If FFVI was made on today's specs it would be the same IF the dev cared to make it look like the SNES game. Better specs don't force you to make better visuals they just help you to do more. Take Arcade and PSN games, they were made for the HD consoles but a lot of them would fit on a Wii... Crysis wouldn't be made on the Wii because of it's artstyle relying on powerful specs.

If you only talked about Engines like CryEngine and UE3 then maybe it would be more difficult but certainly not the extra available power on the consoles.



gumby_trucker said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
gumby_trucker said:
theRepublic said:

I'm playing Muramasa right now, and it is gorgeous.  Just beautiful.  I will just watch the background a lot of the time I am playing.

The designers were wise enough to accommodate this style of play by making all combat in the game performed by mashing the same button

And yet the gameplay is still rather deep.  And I hope you aren't insinuating the game is easy.  Many people quit the game because of the difficult bosses, just like Odin Sphere.

To be honest I found it quite hard to get into the game for some reason, repetitive combat definitely having something to do with it. Every time I back-tracked I also had to fight the same enemies over and over again. After seeing the same things two or three times I kinda stopped caring about how beautiful the animation was... left the game after about 10 hours. I'll probably come back to it but I'd be lying if I said I won't have to force myself a little bit to finish it.

Also regarding the challenge, I played on the easier difficulty and for the most part got by with button-mashing. Changing blades and using items wisely can definitely come in handy but I didn't find it necessary in order to progress.

Bottom line is I wanted to like the game but it's just too lacking in substance for my taste... could have been amazing with co-op though... and less grinding.

Well, its not like repetative combat and fighting the same enemies made Super Metroid or Castlevania: SotN a bad game.  And after you beat a boss, you don't even have to fight the same enemies in the area where the boss was.  Its only if you revisit areas that you have to fight enemies.  But I don't see how that's a negative, as that's what the whole game is about.  And once you learn how to fight well, its very fun.

Yes, you can get throug hthe game just mashing the A button and holding block.  But you'll probably die at bosses multiple times.  Once you start to learn enemies timing and focus on doing 100 hit combos in the air, the game shows its deep gameplay and becomes very fun.  Plus, you'll beat bosses easier.

Also, the last few bosses as well as the end game 'white' dungeons are the best part.  And pretty hard.  I can warp through the game now without dying to any bosses but that final dungeon challenge still kills me half the time.  Because basically, you have to fight every enemy in the game consecutively, followed by clones of the main characters who have the same skills you do (and the best weapons in the game).  Think of the last level of Zelda II on steroids and no breaks.

Also, I've found multiple times that I'll play a good game, not like it much, then pick it up much later and be obsessed with it.  It happened with Resident Evil 4, Ninja Gaiden, Batman Arkham Asylum and even Odin Sphere.  And now they're some of my favorite games.  Who knows, it might happen to you for Muramasa.



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Jazz2K said:
Rath said:

It's true certainly.

Graphics doesn't even necessarily advance aesthetics. The aesthetic of FFVI would not be improved, and would possibly be made worse if the graphical engine was better. However the aesthetic of Crysis (which was a great aesthetic) relied on a much more advanced graphical engine.

A stronger graphical engine allows you to make different aesthetics. Not necessarily better ones.


You know that the less powerful an engine is the less can be done with it? A more powerful engine can only help. If FFVI was made on today's specs it would be the same IF the dev cared to make it look like the SNES game. Better specs don't force you to make better visuals they just help you to do more. Take Arcade and PSN games, they were made for the HD consoles but a lot of them would fit on a Wii... Crysis wouldn't be made on the Wii because of it's artstyle relying on powerful specs.

If you only talked about Engines like CryEngine and UE3 then maybe it would be more difficult but certainly not the extra available power on the consoles.

I don't agree. There is a magic to the sprites used back in the 16-bit era that I don't think is really captured even by games following in their tradition such as Braid. I'm really not sure that a better graphics engine would have made FFVI look better.

The change from FFVI to FFVII, which was required by the change of expectations in graphics, was one of the worst changes I have ever seen. It went from one of the best looking games ever made to, while not one of the worst, certainly an awful looking game.



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Rath said:
Jazz2K said:
Rath said:

It's true certainly.

Graphics doesn't even necessarily advance aesthetics. The aesthetic of FFVI would not be improved, and would possibly be made worse if the graphical engine was better. However the aesthetic of Crysis (which was a great aesthetic) relied on a much more advanced graphical engine.

A stronger graphical engine allows you to make different aesthetics. Not necessarily better ones.


You know that the less powerful an engine is the less can be done with it? A more powerful engine can only help. If FFVI was made on today's specs it would be the same IF the dev cared to make it look like the SNES game. Better specs don't force you to make better visuals they just help you to do more. Take Arcade and PSN games, they were made for the HD consoles but a lot of them would fit on a Wii... Crysis wouldn't be made on the Wii because of it's artstyle relying on powerful specs.

If you only talked about Engines like CryEngine and UE3 then maybe it would be more difficult but certainly not the extra available power on the consoles.

I don't agree. There is a magic to the sprites used back in the 16-bit era that I don't think is really captured even by games following in their tradition such as Braid. I'm really not sure that a better graphics engine would have made FFVI look better.

The change from FFVI to FFVII, which was required by the change of expectations in graphics, was one of the worst changes I have ever seen. It went from one of the best looking games ever made to, while not one of the worst, certainly an awful looking game.

Future games haveused sprites and still had stronger engines that allowed them to do more than FFVI did.  Some noted examples would be Suikoden II, Disgaea, heck even Chrono Trigger, Star Ocean and Seiken Densetsu 3 on the SNES.  What you're really talking about is your viewof nostalgia and 'timeless' video games.  And while I might love Kirby's Adventure or Super Metroid, its obvious later games could do more with more powerful engines.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

That is why Okami is still the most beautiful game for me, even nowadays.



nitekrawler1285 said:
Chrizum said:

I understand the point of the video and I agree with it, but that guy (and everyone in this thread so far) is still wrong.

There is no difference between graphics and aesthetics. Gamers have made up this distinction when number of polygons and texture resolutions became a big deal. Truth is, define the word "graphics". Simply put, it means "visual representation". Sure, polygons and textures are part of that, namely the technical part. The other side is the art direction. Technical capabilities art direction = graphics = aesthetics = visuals. It's all the same. And yes, art direction has a bigger influence on a game's graphics than its technical specifications. That's the point of the video and it's all true. But stop mixing up these semantics. Graphics = technical capabilities art direction, period.


I totally concur with you.  How the hell are we even supposed to have aesthetics if nothing is being displayed to the screen. The graphics are the aesthetic.  They can design those graphics to be more or less aesthetically pleasing but it's still just graphics.  

Are trees and rivers the same thing? Just because you can't have a tree without the water to feed it doesn't mean the two are one and the same. Aesthetics require a degree of graphical ability in order to happen, but there is absolutely no way whatsoever in which the two are the same.



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gumby_trucker said:
theRepublic said:

I'm playing Muramasa right now, and it is gorgeous.  Just beautiful.  I will just watch the background a lot of the time I am playing.

The designers were wise enough to accommodate this style of play by making all combat in the game performed by mashing the same button

I'm not talking about the battles.  I'm talking about the times where you are just moving through the areas.  Battles are always announced, so other times you can move through the game without worrying about getting hurt.  That is when I am checking out the backgrounds.



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MessiaH said:

your reaction to aesthetics is an opinion. some people claim that killzon 2 and 3 are all graphics and no aesthetics, but i disagree with this notion. when i play killzone 2 or 3, the dilapidated environments around me, and the shaeds of colors used feel oppressive. and this is done intentionally. when i am on helghan, i feel like i cant breathe, like i want to get the hell out of there and back to earth, or vekta or whatever its called in the game. so in that sense, i think GG have succeeded in their aesthetic choice. 

people immediately see the shades of grey and brown and dismiss it as lack of art, but these colors are purposefully chosen to create an emotion within you while you play. but don't get me wrong, some game dont get it right at all. i havent played, but ive seen, quantum theory. and they too employ all sorts of browns and greys and what not, but god their game just looks horrible and tacky.

you know what im sizzlin?

this

people seem to think aesthetics can ONLY apply to games that are colorful, cartoony, etc

but then watch the vid, he mentions Fallout 3 as a game with great aesthetics and that game is nothing but gray, green brown, and black, it's about how you apply the aesthetics that makes a game look good, not how many colors you can point out