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Forums - Nintendo - Project Cafe/3DS and the abandoning of the consumer

axt113 on 28 April 2011
NightDragon83 said:

This thread is full of so much fail it's not even funny.  How is Nintendo "abandoning" the consumer by focusing more on what gamers actually WANT for a change?!?  They can only sell so many Wii Sports / Wii Fit / Wii Play titles for so long before their "expanded audience" starts to grow tired of such games, and you can't have a sustainable business model when the majority of your current audience buys only a handful of games a year, if that.

The most ironic thing is that, aside from the aformentioned casual-audience targeted games, the Wii's biggest selling titles are all traditional core franchises where little has changed from their predecessors.  Games like Galaxy 1 and 2, Mario Kart, Smash Bros Brawl, Twilight Princess, Prime 3, NSMB Wii, DKC Returns, etc, are all games that feature traditional control methods with motion controls tacked on as either a gameplay enhancement (Prime 3, Zelda, Galaxy), optional (MK Wii), or totally non-existent (Brawl).  Nintendo knows this, which is why their next system will (according to the rumors anyway) focus more on the traditional controller configuration rather than the Wiimote type controller.


What games do the people actually want, M;OM, Galaxy?  Those games failed to drive sales at all, they not only failed this gen they failed the last two as well, Skyward Sword will be much of the same.

NSMB, Mario Kart, appeal to the old school and the expanded which is why they sell consoles,  but games like Galaxy do not.

This isn't about the controls, this is about the games and the direction, I've already said they should focus on the expanded and old school style games and drop off the games like Galaxy and Other M and Skyward Sword, not that they should give up on NSMB



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

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axt113 on 28 April 2011
bazmeistergen said:
axt113 said:
Play4Fun said:
axt113 said:

Bridging the gap is a fool's errand

Just as 2D Mario fans will not necessarily be 3D mario fans, you cannot get old school expanded gamers to become hardcore gamers

yes the Wii hs been out less time than the PS2, but the way Nintendo has been treating  it the past few years, it won't be out as long as the PS2


Where'd you get that 'hardcore' crap from? No one is talking about making anyone 'hardcore'.

And no one is talking about old-school gamers either.

It talks about new gamers. People who came into gaming with the Wii.


It talked about converting the new gamers into loyalists, hence Hardcore, and my point is that that is a foolish attempt, since the new gamers are only gaming ecause of thei expanded and old school games, so unless you cater to them with more of those games, they will notstick around, they will not be bridged into loaylist gamers by 3D Mario and the like

There's so many old school games on Wii it's unreal. They catered for that market segment from start to end...

So Galaxy catered to that?  M:OM catered?  Skyward Sword is catering?  Nope



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

axt113 on 28 April 2011
archbrix said:
axt113 said:
Mr Khan said:

I swore off this, and yet i return.

Where is the proof that Skyward Sword is focused on Puzzle-solving over fighting, which is the underlying accusation your comment is loaded with? If anything we should see the most substantial combat of the 3D era


When was the last time Zelda wasn;t loaded down with puzzles and other boring crap?  When was the last time you weren't stuck on a boat or in a train or doing some other boring travelling and backtracking in Zelda?

I'll be happy to be proven wrong about Skyward Sword, but I won't hold my breath, I'm expecting a little bit of swordfighting and a ton of puzzles

Just making Zelda a swordfighting game with no puzzles or backtracking fundamentally changes what makes Zelda, Zelda.  Sure, some of the sailing and train riding could get a little boring at times, and there's always improvements that can be made, but it sounds as though Zelda's just not a game for you.  And there's surely people who would agree with you, but for those of us who love Zelda, we don't want to see it stray from its essence and become another game.

Which brings me to your disdain for 3D Mario.  No, it's not going to appeal to as many people as 2D Mario, but it is what it is, and a lot of people love it for that.  Not every single game on a system has to be completely revolutionary or a bonafide system seller in order to justify its existence.  And not everything that's popular is necessarily regarded as the best, quality wise.  Is American Idol the best show on TV or is Justin Bieber the best music out there?

Why take away people's ability to enjoy a wide variety of experiences?  Ironically, the NES, DS, and PS2, which you actually credit as being successful, had just that; a varied library of software.


Old school Zelda and modern Zelda are not auite the same things, old school had a much greater focus on fighting, sure their was puzzles, but they were not the focus that they are now.

Quality is subjective, sales are objective,  having a varied library is fine, that's the role of  third parties, a first party is there to sell its hardware, to sell the oxes that people want to play Mario on



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

Play4Fun on 28 April 2011

 Quote:

"You can argue with a million people and win but you can't win an argument against a fool. He won't shut up until you do."



archbrix on 28 April 2011
axt113 said:

 

Quality is subjective, sales are objective

This way of thinking is what gets you into trouble.  It's not completely untrue (something that is of a universally terrible quality rarely goes very far), but hardly something that can be considered a foolproof mantra.  By this rationale, Justin Bieber must be one of your favorite artists, as the sales are certainly there to back up your claim.  No, you can't deny he is, as SALES ARE OBJECTIVE.  

See what I mean?  Sure there is obviously a huge audience for Bieber, or else the sales wouldn't be there at all, but by your way of thinking every artist out there should aspire to mimic his direction as it's clearly garnering huge sales.  Just because something doesn't rake in the biggest sales doesn't mean it's not good or still widely appreciated on other important levels.

And you're also incorrect in assuming that a game like Galaxy is a flop.  Galaxy 1 alone has sold over 9m copies.  As much as NSMB?  Of course not, but to hear you call it, it just shouldn't have existed at all.  Do you realize that most companies would kill to have their games "flop" like that.  Not to mention the game's metacritic score.  Yes, quality is subjective, but beleive it or not it's quality that most people remember, not sales.  Just Dance 2's sales trounce the sales of Bioshock, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who experienced Bioshock would still play it years from now or at least look back on it fondly.  Many of Just Dance's consumers, however, would likely not touch it again because they've already moved on to the next popular thing...



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axt113 on 28 April 2011
Play4Fun said:

 Quote:

"You can argue with a million people and win but you can't win an argument against a fool. He won't shut up until you do."


When Project Cafe sales are underwhelming, and its clear it won't get anywhere near the sales of the Wii, I hope you remember this.



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

axt113 on 28 April 2011
archbrix said:
axt113 said:

 

Quality is subjective, sales are objective

This way of thinking is what gets you into trouble.  It's not completely untrue (something that is of a universally terrible quality rarely goes very far), but hardly something that can be considered a foolproof mantra.  By this rationale, Justin Bieber must be one of your favorite artists, as the sales are certainly there to back up your claim.  No, you can't deny he is, as SALES ARE OBJECTIVE.  

See what I mean?  Sure there is obviously a huge audience for Bieber, or else the sales wouldn't be there at all, but by your way of thinking every artist out there should aspire to mimic his direction as it's clearly garnering huge sales.  Just because something doesn't rake in the biggest sales doesn't mean it's not good or still widely appreciated on other important levels.

And you're also incorrect in assuming that a game like Galaxy is a flop.  Galaxy 1 alone has sold over 9m copies.  As much as NSMB?  Of course not, but to hear you call it, it just shouldn't have existed at all.  Do you realize that most companies would kill to have their games "flop" like that.  Not to mention the game's metacritic score.  Yes, quality is subjective, but beleive it or not it's quality that most people remember, not sales.  Just Dance 2's sales trounce the sales of Bioshock, but I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who experienced Bioshock would still play it years from now or at least look back on it fondly.  Many of Just Dance's consumers, however, would likely not touch it again because they've already moved on to the next popular thing...


I can;t deny that Beiber's music is extremely well recieved by the market, I personally don;t care for it, but obviously the market likes him, the difference between subjective and objective, I personally don;t care for that type of mucis, and that is my subjective opinion, but the market seems to like his music since it sells very well, which is an objective measure.

All artists should seek to be recieved by a huge segement of the market, yes,  the reason is that art that is not recieved well by the market, and is in fact produced knowing that the market will not recieve it,  is just ego wanking, you're not doing anything of real value, you're just satisfying yourself.

Yes it shouldn't have existed, at least not made by Nintendo, as it was a waste of their resources, if a third party wanted to make it, then that's a different matter, but for Nintenndo, a business based off of selling its hardware so people can play games on, a game that fails to sell hardware is usesless, its just done to satisfy the ego of miyamoto.  a third party making it, would have been different, since they have a different business model.

Bioshock may be looked on by a few fondly, but a game like Just dance will get more people interested in games than Bioshock will and will sell more copies, so just dance has more value in the end and is better recieved by the market.

 

In a year, when the Cafe debuts to underwhelming sales, and the 3DS is still struggling to gain traction, I will bump this thread to remind you.



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

oniyide on 28 April 2011

^^^^ no Just Dance won't get people into gaming, that is a fantasy that people have, have you actually talkied to the people who usually play those games and only those games.?? have you noticed they never go to the more meaty games?? Because they dont care about those games, they didnt care before and they really dont care especially now since they can play games that arent to complex



axt113 on 28 April 2011
oniyide said:

^^^^ no Just Dance won't get people into gaming, that is a fantasy that people have, have you actually talkied to the people who usually play those games and only those games.?? have you noticed they never go to the more meaty games?? Because they dont care about those games, they didnt care before and they really dont care especially now since they can play games that arent to complex


They still game, just game with less complex and more casual fare that they enjoy, but it still gets more people to into gaming

 

 



Rumors indicate that it is planning on following the first approach, sticking a new, motion-sensitive controller onto an existing console. Our perspective is that this is the worst of the three options.

-Clayton Christensen back in 2007 already knew Move would be a bad idea

oniyide on 28 April 2011

^^^ its not getting them to play the games Ninty or even some other companies want them to play and thats what ninty was hoping would happen with the Wii. thats not what went down and IMHO it was never going to go down like that