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Forums - Sales - Will Wii offer more of what the Ps2 did or more of the DS?

Avinash_Tyagi said:

 

Yes population growth isn't that fast, but it affects the demographic that was being targeted by the videogame industry the most and we can see that it accounts for most of the growth between the NES and the PS perfectly, remember its about which age group is affected the most, the young, and while you can argue that multiple console ownership is small, its not as small as you seem to believe, and does play an affect on sales, and the N64/PS era was when it became a bigger factor, in addition you also failed to take into account that the NES also had competition just like the PS did (the gaming PCs, master system, even the arcades might be arguable as competitiors at that time)

 

 

 

Again your argument is flawed because you fail to take into account the competitors to the NES, you are trying to show growth to the market without taking into account gaming on the PC's for example, this is why your argument is flawed you seem to think that the NES launched in a Vacuum without any competition and that is why its numbers were so large when in fact nothing is farther from the truth, the market in 1985 was much larger than just the NES, however by the PS era the influence of gaming on PC's had declined


 

Of course the analysis is flawed, its a ten minute analysis. I could come up with dozens of problems with it. Unfortunately, I'm unwilling to spend three months deriving relevant data and variables and running hundreds of regressions to determine the effects of those variables. That said, the analysis I provided gives a reasonably good account of the situation and yes it does ignore some things, such as the Master System (which I owned and loved) but unfortunately that system really does not change things considerably, in fact it does not change the growth that occurred in the PS/N64 era at all. It only effects the growth from the NES to the SNES/MD era. The biggest error however, for the record, is that the "generations" are not clear cut and have significant cross-over.

 Furthermore you bring up competitors and substitutes for the NES. Good point. Turns out you're opening a can of worms if you want to go there though. Countries have hundreds of pages of legislation that helps people to determine what constitutes a market and even with all that it is never clear cut. For example both movies, DVDs and books are imperfect substitutes for videogames in an economic analysis. A legal argument could be made that they are all the one market. So yes, I did ignore "gaming computers" and "arcades" but if I wanted to go there I should also consider box office takings and VHS earnings and that seemed overly complicated for a quick forum analysis. Now you may thing that doing that is going way over the top but as an Economist that would naturally be how I would go about a proper analysis of the market. I decided to stick with relevant near perfect substitutes, which meant I only considered consoles within a given generation, which is a perfectly reasonable way to go about things given the circumstances.

 However it seems that you will not be happy with any argument that suggests that the PS significantly expanded the videogames market. Given that you are unwilling to provide any data to back up your ideas - well you did provide some data initially but you chose to ignore all competitors to the NES and PS despite coming back later and suggesting they were not only highly relevant to the analysis but that the competitors needed to expand well beyond the console market to look at things accurately, it appears that you contradicted yourself -  it seems clear that I would be wasting my time to continue this discussion.

At the end of the day, the PS outsold all prior consoles by a significant amount despite facing stronger direct competition, which indicates that it managed to find previously untapped demographics. It really shouldn't be any more complicated than that.



 
Debating with fanboys, its not
all that dissimilar to banging ones
head against a wall 
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You seem to be ignoring the other aspects of the market because it proves your argument wrong, I ntoice you are skirting the PC gaming market entirely, no it is not the same as bringing in VHS and DVDs since they are not gaming systems the PC is a gaming machine, notice how the 80's and early 90's were the height of PC gaming, how convenient for you to ignore them, and notice how it was in direct competition at the time of the NES and was stronger and more technologically advanced than the NES, intersting that the Wii is in the same posiition

The only reason I ignored the competitors to the NES and PS1 initially was to keep the argument from getting too cluttered and I did expalin why they were irrelevant to the discussion because multiple console ownership and the PC gaming market, which was competitors to the NES, much like the N64 and Sega saturn were to the PS, all you've given is saying that the market expaned, but have failed to even acknowledge the influence of PC gaming, and the arcades durng the NES and SNES eras, you seem unwilling to accept that the whole PS expanding the market is little more than clever marketing originated by Sega (the whole nintendont ads) and perfected by Sony to make it seem like they were catrering to a new more adult market when in fact it was merely a migration from the PC gaming which was in decline by the time of the PS.

At the end of the day PS only outsold the NES by a very small marging in every market save the PAL regions due to Nintendo not pushing into the PAL regions earlier, both had competiotn and yet were able to sell well in spite of that, but don't mistake it for being an expanded market.

 

Also you want data ok,

The C64 (Commodore 64 )Sold 30 million units in its lifetime and had a wealth of gaming software, if you don't think that was a competitor to the NES then you are really just avoiding the facts, it was a gaming PC first and foremost (30 million is a pretty large number of units about the same as the N64 sales...hmmmm)



 

Predictions:Sales of Wii Fit will surpass the combined sales of the Grand Theft Auto franchiseLifetime sales of Wii will surpass the combined sales of the entire Playstation family of consoles by 12/31/2015 Wii hardware sales will surpass the total hardware sales of the PS2 by 12/31/2010 Wii will have 50% marketshare or more by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  It was a little over 48% only)Wii will surpass 45 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2008 (I was wrong!!  Nintendo Financials showed it fell slightly short of 45 million shipped by end of 2008)Wii will surpass 80 Million in lifetime sales by the end of 2009 (I was wrong!! Wii didn't even get to 70 Million)

mike_intellivision said:
Some points

On Nintendo and innovation --

Nintendo saved video games in the 1980s. Post-crash NO ONE wanted those things. If it had not been for the Big N, we would all be playing on computers not consoles.

Nintendo is currently expanding the market because a lot of non-game buyers (older folks) -- which is why the attach rate is lower.

I will give you that the PSX brought a lot of attention to Sony and broke new ground technologically.

On Nintendo was in a monopoly --

One word: SEGA. It was a weak competitor during the NES days. But it jumped to the next generation sooner with the Genesis/Mega Drive and almost outsold the SNES.

There were also competing systems from Atari and NEC during those generations.

On the reviews --

Happy Squirrel is right.

Reviewers tend to like certain things (shooters, action games) or have started treating games like movies. In other words, they want cinematograhy and score and story. (The lack of a fully-developed story is often cited by reviewers for not giving Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) a perfect rating).

Gamers -- true gamers -- just want fun. They can enjoy different types of games. Reviewers have not shown that flexibility.

Furthermore, reviewers more and more tend to be reviewing for those who have unlimited time to play games. Thus, games which have no story and can be played in short bursts tend to get poor scores from reviewers but are well received by players and sell really well (e.g., Mario & Sonic (Wii).

Mike from Morgantown

Gaming for over 30 years (since my first pong unit).

The Gospel according to Mike_Intellivision.

Nothing more needs to be said. He explained it perfectly.

John Lucas 



Words from the Official VGChartz Idiot

WE ARE THE NATION...OF DOMINATION!

 

I'm sorry, but I have trouble even having a discussion with anyone who thinks the DS's core game library (or game library in general) is lacking in ANY way. If you think this, chances are very good that you simply don't own a DS.

There is a huge disconnect between reviewers and DS games. A game like Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney which averages an 82% on gamerankings is rated ridiculously low to people who've played it. Take a game like Contra 4 too. It's got an 86%, but to Contra fans the game is practically perfect!

Of course there are also the JRPGs on the DS. The masses of them. I can't really blame reviewers for underrating DS RPGs because they underrate all JRPGs without Final and Fantasy in their names (which the grossly overrate). I have yet to meet a DS owner who finds its library lacking in amazing core games.

I play my DS more than any other system I have ever owned and I'm about as core gamer as anyone can possibly be. I understand that people have different opinions about games, but if you base all your gaming decisions on reviews you are going to miss some really incredible gaming experiences.



@naz

KH2 7.6- IGN



 

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leo-j said:
@naz

KH2 7.6- IGN

That's exactly my point.  Clearly that game is far above a 7.6 to you and Soriku.  Obviously you wouldn't be a happier gamer if you had listened to that 7.6.  I strongly suggest people experiment with games outside of their normal tastes and "review ranges."  You may be surprised at what you enjoy.  I know I was.