Bit of an unfair sales comparison on that considering your counting pc sales to make it 3 platforms to 2.  I am sure if FF 13 released on pc same date as the PS360 counterpart it would be the other way around. PC sales aren't tracked that much on this site, only just recently have the new releases just been added to the 40 list. I am assuming the other person above my post was thinking the same as i. FF 13 PS3/360 > FO3 PS3/360 since this site is primarily used for console/software sales.. 

yea i did not counting pc ff13 has sold more.

^^^ well yeah if you choose to act like the PC version of Fallout3 doesnt exist then of course FF 13 sold more. 

Ratings too. Have any JRPG's scored 9.5 or higher? Heck only 3 have gotten 9/10 ratings or higher (Demon Souls, Valkeria Chronicles, and Lost Odyssey).

Final Fantasy lost it's charm in the PS2 era. I mean FFXI and FFXIV are just plain garbage, FFXII was mostly automatic gameplay, and FFX was alright, but nothing compared to the SNES and PS1 Final Fantasy's.

I mean quality aside, just compare how many good JRPGs there were during the PS2 era and now in this one. The current gen sees maybe 1-4 good JRPGs a year, when PS2 was around it was abut 10 a year. I mean where the heck is Suidoken?

I know you agree that the SNES and PS1 generation had the most good quality JRPGs. Well PS2 was somewhat below the PS1 in terms of number and quality and the Wii/PS3/360 mix is a level below that. Hence downward spiral, I think most can agree they are loosing the attention they got before.

Fallout 3 outsold FFXIII, and that's not really important. After FFXIII, the next best selling JRPG is like a million seller, where the WRPG going down to 4 million and more steadily dies down with title.

Also, I think the best atmospheres were set in the SNES and PS1 era. No game was more critical of your decisions as Crhono Trigger, and thats one of the few games where I actually want to see all 13 endings!

Also Square Enix had more titles, but nothing special, and sorry, but Front Mission: Evolved was still awesome. Not as good as the stretegy RPG varients, but still overall a good 3rd PS. The only Japanese developer I find is meeting their prior volume is Atlus. Namco isn't doing too bad either, but again how many Tales games were there last gen?

BTW, the way you referenced your FF's, it strikes me that you'e first Final Fantasy was a 3D PS1 varient. You mentioned playing remakes of older FF's instead of originals, and FFVI isn't among your favorite FF's, but FFX and FFXIII are. That's unusual.

Also WTH with FFXIV and FFXI? Final Fantasy isn't going down the drain, nonsense. Even if you enjoyed FFXIII, I doub't we will see another good mainstream FF game on a console. Versus will be fine, but XIII-2? Nah. Back on PS1 and SNES every FF was a good title. Even the NES ones were consistantly good, but playing FFIII on a DS for the first time just feels wrong to me.

Oh know were going to metascores? most people who play jrpgs woul;d give them much higher scores than what professional reviewers are gviving them. Just look at tales of vesperia its meta is like 79 but it whipes the floor with most wrpgs in my opinion. but regardless of what you say or i say its all opinionated not fact. you cant prove to me on a large scale that  jrpg fans are dissapointed with this gens jrpgs because theirs to much to enjoy. And no id actually say that last gen and this gen has the most quality jrpgs your letting nostalgia blind you from good games this and last gen. Anf ff9 and 10 are my favorite final fantasies and they are better thn any 16 and 8 bit variations in the series. 

How the hell did a topic about a Tales game and a release date turn into an arguement about what Final Fantasy games are good and which ones aren't and a big WRPG Vs JRPG arguement and with sales debates?

I guess I'll add to that since that seems to be the new topic, FFXII had the best gameplay in the series IMO because of the crazy strategic nature of it and the fact it mixes action and strategy perfectly. FFIX is my favorite Final Fantasy because I love the story and it had the best graphics, gameplay, imo the best story, and the best controls of all the PS1 era final fantasies. Currently working on FFVI and it's alright so far, It gets much better around the half way point from what I've heard.

FFXIII on the other hand, is probably in the top 5 worst games I've played this gen and maybe even in the past decade. Gameplay is the most restrictive dumbed down and broken pile of shit I've ever seen, the characters apart from Snow, Lightning and Sazh are just terrible and the story is mediocre. I'm on chapter 11 of like 13 on it and I doubt it's even worth finishing nevermind finishing it for trophies.

There are only some WRPGS that sell that much, and Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3 and even Borderlands are more Shooter with RPG elements than true RPGS in my opinion... And Mass Effect2 and Dragon Age 2 underwent a "streamlining" that was the cause of some heavy critics of many fans... so maybe the WRPGS (at least those from Electronic Arts)  could also be in a downwards spiral.

 JRPGS, with the exception of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, mostly sell around 1 Mio - 0,5 Mio. But it often amazes me how much they can impress most of its gamers. I personally think that is the magic of JRPGS because they are not only ment as means of entertainment... their storys often have a deeper meaning and they make us think about some moral dilemmas. Square-Enix now has the two biggest JRPGS and I think it is a clever way of keeping Dragon Quest as "classic" JRPG with Focus on classic gameplay and Final Fantasy as focus as the story driven franchise. With FF X and the voice acting FF took a major step forward and FF X was an almost perfect game for me... FF XIII was another huge step forward regarding storytelling and the characters were simply amazing. I like how they all have their doubts and weaknesses because that made them so believable...

In the PS2 era Square made the decision to abandon the classical main character vs. main villain concept. FF 7 was mainly Cloud vs. Sephiroth, FF9 mainly Zidane vs. Kuja.... Since FFX every character in your Party has some story to tell and a greater role in the whole story (to a greater extent than in former FFs I mean). You will even have problems in telling me the "main character" in FF XII... Vaan, Ashe, Bash, Balthier... they are somehow at almost the same level of importance, even if Vaan was your first character (except the Prologue).

As I said I couldn't play the NES or SNES FF or even Chrono Trigger because they were never released in Europe... FF 7 was the first true JRPG that I could play (well besides Phantasy Star and Shining Force)... I could only play Secret of Mana, Actraiser or Terranigma but those are more Action/Adventures likes Zelda... So for me the JRPGs started with the PS1 (FF 7 8 9, Front Mission 3, SaGa Frontier 2, Suikoden 1 2, Grandia, Breath of Fire 3). When I first played FF 4 I liked it from the beginning.. while I had some problems with 5 and 6... With FF 5 I had first to make myself accustomed with the Job system where everyone could learn every job... because I somehow had the urge to let everyone master every job... I lost interest in that initally because it was simply too timeconsuming... but with FF 5 advance I adapted my playstyle and I ended up liking it. Final Fantasy simply had to much characters that were not really well integrated in the story. That somehow messed it up for me... I stopped my PS1 playthrough halfway through because I lost interest... but I played through it again with the GBA Version... again I didn't like it that much... For me it is maybe even the least interesting of all, but that is because I really like them all.  Even if I am the only one feeling so, it is not meant as bashing the game...

I think that one problem with the new Final Fantasy games are, that American Gamers have a very different approach to gaming. They tend to connect with a certain character and play it with the point of view of this special character... The whole WRPG concept bases on this style of gaming experience. Thats why decisions are so important... they try to give you the possibility to avoid certain events/actions that you don't want to see. At the same time they abandon linear storytelling and the possibility of telling a really great story.... I played them with my own playstyle and I feel them just lacking because they totally miss the main point of a RPG for me... the story should make you think about moral dilemmas and their consequences... WRPGs are more like movies (pure entertainment) while JRPGS (especially FFs) are more like a theatre play... they want to make you think about some very important things and the pure entertainment comes only second...

FF 13 made me think about the Holocaust and how Propaganda can poison the thoughts of the masses over time. As I grew up here in Austria we were some sort of one of the first victims of the Nazis as Austria became part of the Reich. It was a major topic at school as there were some Austrians who always wanted to pe part of the German Reich... so we grew up with the big questions if our Grandparents where active participants or just passive victims ... That shouldn't be a history lesson, I just wanted to point out that I could easily connect to the story... We have visited the Konzentrationslager of Mauthausen when we were like 12 years old and have seen the terrors of genocide... I just can recommend you to watch a movie like Schindler's list and I bet that the train sequence will have a totally different meaning to you, too. Or how propaganda can incite hatred... would you have feared a Pulse L'Cie too... even so much that you would also want everyone who even came close to an object from Grand Pulse too die before he could possible turn into an L'Cie? I hope you get an impression of what I like about JRPGS now...

When I played Oblivion I played it like I would play a JRPG. I mainly followed the storyline and I never got hooked up with it. I was sent on a mission to save the world but the  whole world never gave me the impression that this quest is actually important. There are so much sidequests available but it felt so wrong that I left my important mission and main quest of the game just to do some unimportant sidequests or to work on my carrier in the different guilds... I mean, whats the point in becoming the head of the thieves guild when the world is about to end (ok, thats an exaggeration but on the surface I feel that I do have a point in here). The main problem I have with the WRPGS I have played so far is that they do not take their main story very important and they put their effort in Sidequests instead... Take Borderlands... it has an enormous number of sidequests, but they are somehow unimportant und repetitive and the main story is so awful that it is not even worth thinking about it.

That could be the main problem that many people have with the modern JRPGS. With the coming of voice acting and motion capturing the developers put their effort in storytelling... But I got the impressions that many americans are more interested in the pure gameplay than in the story. FF XIII was centered around the whole story and it was pretty linear because you should get the feeling of being chased and have no time to rest. Thats why you can't free roam in towns and go shopping there, because you are the public enemy. That was a clear design choice... It made perfectly sense in FF XIII for me while it wouldn't have worked with former FFs. Or Hope was a really annoying character for many people. In a WRPG you could have avoided him almost entirely... but as I said FF 13 is more like a theatre play. They want you to not look away when something you don't like is happening. You are somehow forced to think about what is going on. You may not like Hope but you have to see that the society was willing to sentence a young boy to death only because he was accidently at the wrong place at the wrong time. You have to see that he is not understanding what is going on and why his mother had to die. You have to see how he is initially overwhelmed and lost even if you do not like it. In the end I think that Hope was a very deep character because his inner struggles were well portrayed.

So in the end I found FF 13 realy awesome and I am really looking forward to FF 13-2. It will maybe sell less in the US and the UK, but Japan and Continental Europe will certainly still embrace it. And to be honest, I am somehow glad that the average JRPG is not selling more than 1 Million. The market for true JRPG Fans is just not bigger and the developers would have to abandon the core fanbase in order to achieve higher sales.

No I'm not letting Nostalia blind me because I played and beat Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 1,2,4-7, Parasite Eve, and many others during the PS2 era. During the SNES era i wasn't a RPG fan, I mainly played Mario Kart and Donkey Kong Country. Older gens had it better, FFX I though was terrible, I barely was able to beat it. I only beat it because the older games were so good, but honestly, to me Square Enix lost all quality after it merged with enix.

I have yet to play Tales of Vesperia (after exams), but if it's anything like Tales of Symphonia is know it will be good. Still as a massive JRPG fan, I'm just really dissapointed this gen, both home console AND handheld. The quality of many JRPG's have dropped, Golden Sun: Dark Dawn was my biggest disappointment, and what the heck happened to Pokemon and Fire Emblem?

Metascore is stupid too, a lot of people don't like the genre, but when you look at some of the bigger websites, and even those didicated to JRPG's, scores are lower, and the number of games is down.

I mean take the Wii for instance, except for Fire Emblem I don't even own a JRPG, and that's my favorite genre. I'm sure XenoBlade, Dragon Quest X and hopefully The Last Story will be amazing, but really is that all the good JRPG's the best selling console gets?

Also rip on Fallout and Mass Effect all you like, but to many Mass Effect 2 was GOTY last year and I can see why. I honestly can't pick which game I like more ME2 or Chrono Trigger, and thats a damn hard plateau to get to in my opinion. I also enjoyed Fallout 3 more then Demon Souls, Lost Odyssey, and well... ever JRPG I've played this gen. I hated Older Scroll IV, but why am I enjoying Dragon Age 2 as much as Demon Souls? WRPG's are taking a part of a much bigger market share then ever before, the JRPG genre has died down significantly.

If you consider WRPG's like Mass Effect 2, and Fallout 3 other genres, then what does that make Valkeria Chronicles and Tales of...? Is there really a significant difference in gameplay between Demon Souls and Dragon Age? I know story is different, but really?

How many true to form traditional full blooded RPG's come out anymore? Lost Odyssey and FFXIII, that's it this gen right?

You are giving far too much credit to modern era FF's. In FFX, the game was very linear, like FFVII there was still a clear Villan, and for a long time you knew Jecht was the villan of the game. FFX was annoying because no matter how many times you killed...forget his name... HE ALWAYS CAME BACK!! (second last boss I am reffering too, I remember it started with S).

Voice Acting was excellent, but it wasn't the standard in older FF's and Square RPG's. Get past the graphics, and the actual plot of games like Chrono Trigger... You just don't see that in modern day games.

Oblivion sucks IMO too, so I won't argue, and Borderlands is about as entertaining as Enchanted Arms. There are bad WRPG's and bad JRPG's.

I think the reason you can't appreciate the old RPG's is because the technology is too dated for you. You can never become attached to the characters because your not used to reading a wall of text. Of all the Final Fantasy's, I think FF2 had the most attachable characters in the game. FFXII was like playing as a party, and everyone had their own side stories, but honestly I didn't care. In FF2, 4 of your team mates actually die on you, honorably, and are playable for an extra hour campaign after you beat the game.

You just don't have as interesting of a plot in new FF games, I mean in FFVI you try to save the world and fail halfway through, in FFVII one of your team mates is a tiger, another dies mid game, and you find out your a clone of the boss of the game.

Only memorable moment in FFX was finding out that Auron was dead, and a friend of Jechts. I couldn't even finish FFXII, and that says a lot cause I just beat Magna Carta 2 last week and thought it was better.

I understand your view of JRPG's being theatre play. I LOVE JRPG's, don't get me wrong. I love how detailed the plots can be, and seeing how different characters evolve. It's like one good long movie, but when you get bored halfway though, it's just not fun. FFXIII was a good game, just not as great as the SNES JRPG's. The plot is nowhere nearly as deep. Yes it sets the atmosphere better with voice acting and cinematic play, but still. I just haven't played a current gen JRPG where the plot hit me really hard. Lost Odyssey was pretty cool with the concept of being immortal, and having been alive for a thousand years, but honestly the last really steller JRPG I played was probably....well Chrono Trigger because I beat that at the start of this gen, but chronologically, it was....hm.....Drakenguard for PS2. I know that's an old PS2 JRPG, but I play JRPGs depending on mood not age, and that was the last RPG I played which I enjoyed, that was on a modern console.

It just saddens me that FF hasn't made a really proper FF in a decade, that Golden Sun died on the GBA, that Pokemon lost a lot of charm post GB, that there is no Suikoden for the PS3, that Shenmue is over, and that many of Square enix's spin off brands just aren't as good as the SNES spin offs. I mean Breath of Fire 3 is just not the same as 1 & 2. Lost Odyssey and Demon Souls are great, but nothing spectacular.