I see  a hugh problem with your Ios and android debate. People all have phones and will buy phones just because no one used the home phone anymore. Not only that but angry birds I got for free because they can advertise to me. Not only that but I never paid for a game on my phone. I got a droid x. SO when it really comes down to it,  it is being bored somewhere. On the train or at a some docter's office. non of the games on the phone come even close to the enjoyment that I get from  a console. i got both wii and 360, yes I play 360 90 % of the time but would play wii way before my smalll arse phone with no controller.

So whats the real reason these games are moving at the rate they are because they are free. If DS gave away free games, it would jump from 100 to who knows how much, it's f'ing free. how can you hate when clearly there is  a advantage of being free.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN IT'S FREE GAMES. I DOWNLOAD THEM WHEN I'M BORED AND THEN IT'S A MATTER OF TIME WHEN I'M DONE WITH THE GAME. THEY HOWEVER HAVE NO DEPTH EITHER.

Free games with ads = money.

Rovio has made millions of dollars from the 'free' version of Angry Birds on Android. They have ove 30 million 'free' downloads which all make them money. Over 80% of their download base actively plays Angry Birds for a month or two after the download, meaning they are making a killing from the 'free' game.

By now, I would estimate that Rovio has made between $7 and $10 million USD from people downloading the free version. How do you think companies like Zynga, Playdom, and others exist in the casual freemium market? Yes, they have virtual currency, but they run ads and other such things that generate revenue. Rovio themselves made Angry Birds free on Android because they knew they could make more money from the people unwilling to pay versus those that do.

And guess what? It worked.

I never said anything against consoles, like they were going to die. I am talking about the handheld market only. Many people do indeed play consoles far more than handhelds, and there will always be a market for them with their AAA experiences. However, the mass market appeal of gaming on smartphone has its own niche, which was about a billion-dollar industry last year. By comparison, the DS was maybe $2 billion in software. It will be only a year or two before revenues on smartphones surpass revenues on DS/PSP/3DS/NGP. Of course, such markets pale in comparison to consoles which made about $25 billion last year, give or take. But its still a market, and its still something that many people have interest in, with a lot of growth upside.

DUDE A GAME THAT  I CAN GET FOR FREE OUTSELLING ANY DS GAME IS JUST A JOKE TO COMPARE. YOU REALLY ARE REACHING..

iOS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING BECAUSE IN REALITY THESE GAMES ARE ALL FREE. I HAVE NOT PAID FOR ONE GAME, NOT ONE. IF DS WAS TO DO THE SAME THING, YOU COULD SAY GOODBYE iOS. IF DS WAS TO MAKE A PHONE. GOODBYE.

guess what it will never out take ds because it's  like the ugle sister and the hot one. Being the ds is the hot sister and everyone will go with the hot one and do more to get her. Where the iOS  is ugly and people will just settle for the time being. However this won't start some trend that will screw nintendo you are just a apple guy. thats it, you love to love apple.

DS will succeed and no developer is going to ignore the potential of nintendo ever. You kidding me. Look at there sales. Your just reaching and comparing facts that don't compare.

I don't own an Apple product and hate the iPhone with a passion, for the record.

However, I understand where the market is headed, and I accept that. Its not a matter of what I like or want, but where the market is headed. The market is, like it or not, headed in the direction of mass-market penetration of applications via smartphones.

Furthermore, I never said that Angry Birds outsold every DS game. I just said they had 100 million downloads (which they do, Rovio has said it themsevles), and they likely made between $7 and $10 million USD on the Android version alone. They've probably made about $50 - $65 million USD between all makes and models of Angry Birds, which is about on the level of a DS game selling 2 million copies worldwide. Does that make the iOS market as large as the DS market? No. Does that make it as successful as a game like New Super Mario Brothers on DS? Heck no. But iOS and smartphones in general are posting triple-digit growth annualy, which, given time, will turn future titles into huge blockbusters that will compete with the 3DS.

At that point, it will then become difficult for most every company to ignore the iOS/Android markets, and they will decide to focus more on titles inside those markets. When that happens (and its happening here and there with some games and companies), you will start to see the legs fall out of 3rd party support for the 3DS and so on, which will hurt Nintendo and Sony very badly.

*edit*

As for your 'The game would be over if DS would make a phone' comment --- I think your trying to argue about what if Nintendo made a 3DS phone, that it'd be game over. That is exactly my point on the entire discussion. My belief is that Nintendo will indeed do that, and leveraging their IPs on a market like Android, using a Nintendo chipset. Think Nintendo Channel on your DroidX or like what Sony is doing with the Xperia Play. When they do that, they will likely find great success, but again, that is my point - Nintendo will then be out of the cartel business of making 100% of the hardware, making 100% of the carts, and so on. But in the end, it would be better because NSMB on iOS/Android via a Nintendo Channel would sell 100 million copies.

Win haha

He's referring to the 2D Super Mario games; you know, the ones that sell millions upon millions?  I love Super Mario 64.  It was of major importance IMO, as it showed how Nintendo could successfully achieve 3D gaming.  But the N64 and the Gamecube both lacked a side-scrolling Mario game which (in addition to their 3D counterparts) would have undoubtedly made them sell even better and made their respective libraries more well-rounded.

Your arguments about the future of handheld gaming are well founded but your conclusion is a bit over dramatic.  Just as there will always be people who are content with simple, 10 minute fun with their "app" games, there will always be people who want real handheld games for a richer experience.  One doesn't ultimately have to replace the other.  Yes, a lot of people own smart phones, but not everyone who owns a phone plays games with them... and who buys one just for gaming?  That's a pretty big risk for say, Capcom to release their next Street Fighter only for smart phones and ignore the latest handheld system completely... especially if it's made by Nintendo.

As great as Angry Birds' 100m downloads are, it hasn't stopped NSMB from  selling over 25m at around $30 a pop no less.  And AB is a rare exception compared to the goliaths that are Mario Kart, Pokemon, Nintendogs, Brain Age and countless others that also perform very well.  My conclusion is there is room for both the smart phone market and handhelds simply because they really do cater to different demographics for the most part.

And if for some reason the market does dramatically sway away from a dedicated handheld device, as you said, Nintendo would ultimately find a way to adapt. 

im pretty sure what rol is trying to say is that regardless of steam's or angry bird's success, there is no way iOS will cannibalize on Nintendo's handheld sales. the only one who can bring down nintendo is nintendo. they just have to keep making shitty games. sure, steam is growing, and angry birds got a hundred million downloads, but can you prove that retail is declining? and can you prove that steam or iOS is the cause of that decline? can you prove virtual console cannibalized on wii game sales? you can't. consumers do care about retail. maybe not just for resale purposes, but they definitely do.

also, iPhone is not a video game console, it is a portable computer. it was not made to play games, so the games made for it will generally be shallower compared to its dedicated handheld counterparts (and by shallower, i do not mean casual, i mean more limited in many ways). years ago, people like you predicted the doom of game consoles in favor of computers. that computers would take over the living room. iOS is just the latest embodiment of that prediction. computers never took over in 1985, and they won't take over today. and it doesn't have to be Nintendo that thwarts them. in fact, it is very possible that Nintendo will be ousted as a integrated hardware/software game company if they continue on its current path (3D obsession, changing the fundamentals of its flagship titles such as metroid, zelda, and mario, etc) any company that decides to make a dedicated handheld and excellent games for that handheld will effectively end the computer craze. the iPhone, as long as it is a portable computer, cannot have excellent games. it could have good games and great games (see angry birds) sold on the cheap, but that is all.

finally, super mario 64 is not part of the super mario bros series, because the fundamental gameplay that got people hooked to the 2D games completely changed when it hit the N64. same with sunshine and the galaxies. it doesn't matter what nintendo or its developers thought of it or how they advertised it, the consumers didn't see it as super mario bros. and it sold accordingly. 2D mario gameplay is far more fun and engaging than 3D mario gameplay. why do you think so many people refer to NMSBWii as Mario 5?

Again, I'm speaking about SM64 from the point of view of the actual market when the game came out, not revisionist history to fit in with Sunshine and SMG 1 &2 and the 2D revival. If you were around the Nintendo market in the mid 90s at and prior to when SM64 came out, you'd know that SM64 was pitched as the sequel, not a spinoff or anything else. If anything, I think its that Nintendo was forced to revise its model by offering NSMB, then the rest is history in terms of sales. That isn't to argue that NSMB isn't the true sequel to the 2D titles (it is), but at the time, it was pitched as the successor. It can be proven, given that Nintendo didn't offer the 2D versions for quite some time, as the 3D titles were seen as the actual IP.

My question to you is: What constitutes a "real" handheld experience? Is it just physical buttons or a controller? If so, why did Nintendo do away with a regular controller with the Wii? I would argue that the experience can conform to whatever the hardware has to offer. We shape our experiences around what is offered - controller, joystick, keyboard/mouse, Wiimote, Kinect sensor, Move, ect. So then, what is the experience? Title budget? I think we're going to see some significant AAA software in the next 1-2 years from smartphones, which will really show what is possible in the market place.

As for the demographics of the handheld and the smartphone, I believe that the smartphone market is too new and emerging to clearly define them as being totally separate. Smartphones are the blue ocean of consumer electronic devices. Last year, they made up about 20% of all mobile handset sales worldwide. This year, it may be 30-40%. Eventually, they will have the entire market place, and it will be split up between 3-4 major OS players. Given the sales data of iOS, when it happens, those markets will be larger than the 3DS market by notable margins. We can say what we want, but if Smartphones made $1 billion USD on just 20% of the market in 2010, then we know there is at least $5 billion worth of gaming software to be had for smartphones. If that is the case (and that is probably a low-end scenario, because the amount of phones sold to consumers is still increasing in emerging markets), then why wouldn't we see developers go after the $5 billion market with the major titles instead of the $3-4 billion handheld market?

Maybe Capcom won't put the next Street Fighter on smartphones exclusively, but you can be very well sure your going to be buying the same Street Fighter on your phone for $19.99 as you would on your 3DS at $39.99. At that point, consumers are going to see a major value in the phone, and buy them as gaming devices.