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Joelcool7 said:
Games4Fun said:
 

Nothing funny about when you are nothing but lied to constantly. I wanted some answers not a judgement so I think you for your first bit.

For the most part Ill be ignoring the ending but I will say: Every USA citizen should be asking questions like this if after doing research they still cant figue out the actual reason. I also say that every single country in NATO and the others ignore goverments killing people constantly. Myabe not outright in all cases but they go without military action. So while I can say cool citizens will stopped being killed there. Why did they choose this one out of  all the others to help including thoose in NATO.

Sorry if I offended you, but Americans tend to whine and complain that the rest of the world should do something and always think that they are doing everything. Like WWII American's always talk about the amazing thing they did taking all the credit. Then this Libya thing happens and the US is pulling out and you (An American) complains that the US is too involved when infact they are already withdrawing. Also it didn't help you talked about American troops invading Libya, that is all propaganda rumours the US already stated no ground troops would be involved.

As for why the US and Nato helped Libya but not some other countries. In some cases like Rwanda I think the US was just to wimpy to help. Canada's troops stayed but the US was afraid of taking casualties and getting involved so they left.

I think their are a few major reasons the US intervened

#1. The United Nations, the US dragged its feet as much as possible to stay out of Libya (Read my other post). Obama kept making threats but did everything he could to avoid carrying out any of them. When the United Nation's said a No-Fly Zone should be implemented Obama had no excuse anymore for staying out of the Libyan conflict.

#2. The Allies (Nato) France had already recognized the Libyan rebels as the new Government. France was ready to take unilateral action against Gaddafi. Britain backed France right aways. The US has an obligation to help its allies out if they are attacked or go to war. What would the rest of the world say if France and Britain went in and the US sat behind doing nothing.

#3. The Arab League, the Arab League called for the US and the UN to impose a no fly zone. The Arab league is made up of many US allies. Also much of the oil the US uses comes from the Arab League. When the Muslim world is begging America for help, America needs to help.

--------------------------------------------- (Enough about the allies------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#4. One of the major reasons the US claims to be behind them entering conflicts is the people. They invaded Afghanistan to liberate the people of the oppressive Taliban. They invaded Iraq to liberate the people from Saddam. Gaddafi is a tyrant and had to be removed, when the whole world calls for him to go the US would look hypocritical not to try and depose him.

#5. The genocide, Gaddafi killed over 8,000 people in 3 weeks. When Gaddafi took Zawiya their were reports of thousands of protestors. However the next day a phone call confirmed that no protestors remained and the rebels had "Dissapeared" later reports came in of mass graves and the rebels said all the protestors were shot. The Libyan Government was going to do the same in Benghazi and estimates put the possible death toll as high as 500,000.

#6. Oil , Libya is the biggest oil producing country in Africa. The war in Libya has destabalized oil prices. The US wants peace desperatly so that oil prices will drop.

#7. Gaddafi, besides the Genocide and being a dictator. Gaddafi support's Chavez and Iran's President. Gaddafi is constantly trying to turn world leaders against the US. Diplomatically Gaddafi is an enemy of the United States his forces took out a plane and attacked embassies. He is known for his hatred of the United States.

#8. An ally, under Gaddafi Libya is an enemy of the United States. But without Gaddafi the countries rebels would rule and at the moment they are pro-USA. Except one commander who turns out fought for Al-Qaeda. But most of the rebelion want to increase ties with the US. The US can always use another ally.

#9. Democracy, the US is always out their to bring more countries around to freedom. The US needed to support the democratic movement in Libya. The protestors and rebels wanted democracy and believed the US would help them. The US had a democratic obligation to get involved in some way to help them bring about democracy.

#10. Libya is a coastal country and the US has several fleets in the area. The water ways are strategic for Europe and shipping is also important. The US could easily deploy an air craft carrier and get involved where as other countries aren't as easily accessed. Making it very easy for the US to get involved and then leave when they deem nescessary.

Do you need more reasons cause I'm sure I could come up with more?

America doesn't think they are doing everything,we are doing everything? It's about time the United nations,take action on something. 



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@ OP

Without being suspiciously terse I'll aim to condense the answer.

1. Using armed forces is the president's power not congress, the president must report any usage to congress within 48 hours. (This includes weapons as well) The Supreme court interprets congresses silence toward the usage of the Armed forces to be a green light for the president to continue

2. Presently all nations engaging Libya with Armed forces are breaking international law, but it's a popular war and I guess the rhetoric is true that it's Obama's fault if a baby seal gets clubbed somewhere. The president is suspected to have waited as long as he did to get key members of the OIC and UN into saying at least a no-fly zone was needed.

3. What's happening in Libya is a combination of insurgency and revolt, the majority of the ones fighting Ghadaffi happen to be illegal immigrants, some of which are Al Qaeda sympathizers or soldiers themseves others are civilians. It looks like international intervention may just turn Libya into another Lebanon.

4. We are fighting two groups there, the Ghadafi loyal Militia, which are para-military and civilian groups loyal to their despot and then we are fighting the Libyan army regulars (were fighting), the Libyan Army regulars are fighting both the militia loyal to Ghadafi (or at least keeping them in line) and the folks revolting and the insurgents.

Okay, I hope that was short enough.



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Being that every reason to "go to war" in Libya could also be used to justify "going to war" in several other countries in the region, about the only reason I can think of that this action was really taken is that the press coverage in Libya was starting to reflect very poorly on the current administration.



In the cynical sense; this was a put-up-or-shut-up moment for American foreign policy. You had a clear case of people struggling for Democracy, about to be slaughtered for their desire for freedom. If we didn't help them, who the hell could we justify helping in the future? The argument would forever be "well what about the Libyan insurgency?"



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Mr Khan said:

In the cynical sense; this was a put-up-or-shut-up moment for American foreign policy. You had a clear case of people struggling for Democracy, about to be slaughtered for their desire for freedom. If we didn't help them, who the hell could we justify helping in the future? The argument would forever be "well what about the Libyan insurgency?"


American foriegn policy has nothing to put up or shut up about.

I can't recall American troops or fire power ever being used internationally for just human rights violations.

We've used them for cases of Genocide, illegal annexation and crimes against humanity as well as possesion of weapons of mass destruction and crimes against humanity. But never for crimes against humanity on it's own. Usually we use diplomacy first believe it or not.

And how sure are you these people want democracy, the way they use the word is synonymous with Islam, talk to a few of them and explore what kind of democracy they are talking about, I'm not sure you will get the clarity you'd expect. It would be a waste of American blood to send troops there and is currently a burden on the American tax payer.

There are some intelligent folks down there that can form a decent government or at least want one that may be what your expecting but they are few and far between.

Short and sweet, what's happening in Libya will go full circle and if it doesn't then good for them.

@HS probably, this would make more sense if France were more involved, they may be afraid financially since Germany isn't supporting them.



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Joelcool7 said:
Rath said:

The honest truth of the matter is that the USA - and the rest of the world - had to intervene. It seemed extremely likely, indeed almost certain, that Gadaffi was going to commit one of the most awful massacres of the last few decades should he have taken Benghazi. To simply stand by and let it happen would not be acceptable. The international community had basically done that with the Srebrenica massacre. For the politicians in charge (Obama in the case of the US) it was both morally and politcally the only course of action.


Simply put, this is not Iraq. This action has immediately saved lives in the tens, possibly hundreds of thousands. For the international community not to have done these actions would be to essentially give approval to these atrocities.


Exactly, don't also forget Rwanda. Repeats of such massacres are unacceptable. The United Nations and international community should always intervene to protect civilians if possible.

Right now I'm watching Syria, they just killed 40-civilians in one day. We should probably do something their as well, if it appears that the Government is going to massacre its people like Gaddafi was going to do!

why not north korea? or even china abuses



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HappySqurriel said:

Being that every reason to "go to war" in Libya could also be used to justify "going to war" in several other countries in the region, about the only reason I can think of that this action was really taken is that the press coverage in Libya was starting to reflect very poorly on the current administration.


In which other country was a massacre of the scale that was likely to be seen in Benghazi imminent? While in other countries in the region brutal use of force has been used Libya was clearly on a different scale and clearly a completely different situation. I'm pretty sure you keep up with the news well enough to realise this so you seem to be being disingenuous just for an excuse to criticise Obama.



dib8rman said:
Mr Khan said:

In the cynical sense; this was a put-up-or-shut-up moment for American foreign policy. You had a clear case of people struggling for Democracy, about to be slaughtered for their desire for freedom. If we didn't help them, who the hell could we justify helping in the future? The argument would forever be "well what about the Libyan insurgency?"


American foriegn policy has nothing to put up or shut up about.

I can't recall American troops or fire power ever being used internationally for just human rights violations.

We've used them for cases of Genocide, illegal annexation and crimes against humanity as well as possesion of weapons of mass destruction and crimes against humanity. But never for crimes against humanity on it's own. Usually we use diplomacy first believe it or not.

And how sure are you these people want democracy, the way they use the word is synonymous with Islam, talk to a few of them and explore what kind of democracy they are talking about, I'm not sure you will get the clarity you'd expect. It would be a waste of American blood to send troops there and is currently a burden on the American tax payer.

There are some intelligent folks down there that can form a decent government or at least want one that may be what your expecting but they are few and far between.

Short and sweet, what's happening in Libya will go full circle and if it doesn't then good for them.

@HS probably, this would make more sense if France were more involved, they may be afraid financially since Germany isn't supporting them.

Similar to what Rath said below, this is a matter of scale as far as human rights violations goes. I also think the call to action was pretty clear given their imminent complete destruction, Qaddafi had no reason to negotiate because if he could've sacked Benghazi, then it there would have been no rebellion and no-one left for Qaddafi to deal with in any Western-sponsored negotiations.

It was an ideological and public relations bind, pure and simple. I mean we've let massacres that could fairly easily have been stopped go on before (Rwanda) but that falls to a matter of people not caring what goes on in random African countries, which is unfortunate, but the combination of ideology, visibility, and the tactical situation on the ground meant that inaction would have been a long-term diplomatic nightmare. Our action poses certain diplomatic problems, but nothing too outside the norm (pisses off the Russians and the Chinese and makes the Indians frown, but those are all fairly normal)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

1) President Obama is the commander-in-chief, and unless he's starting an actual war, he doesn't need Congress' approval.

2) The United Nations is nowhere near as powerful as you seem to think in itself. Its power stems from the fact that pretty much all of the most powerful countries in the world are sitting on its Security Council and willing to enforce its resolutions. It has no aircraft or missiles with which to implement a no-fly zone, and it doesn't even really have troops.

3) Yes, there are lots of dictators out there in the world. At present, Gaddafi is by far the worst. We can't go around deposing every dictator in the world, because we would destabilise dozens of countries. It's only when they begin to massacre their people that we should get involved.

4) Libya has a stronger opposition movement than any other country currently staging an uprising. The rebels can actually defeat Gaddafi, with Western help.

5) Oil prices will fall if the chaos in the region subsides.

6) Gaddafi has shown that he is completely unwilling to stand down. Everyone in his country not in his payroll hates him, and yet he continues to claim that he is divine leader.

I would say that's enough reason, but I'm sure there's more.



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