By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Erik designs the Wii 2

The controller. While the Wii controller was kind of an NES controller turned on it's side, the Wii controller should be more of an SNES controller. It should have kind of a dog bone shape, so that it can still be gripped like a wand in the middle, but can also be more comfortable to hold on it's side for Mario Bros. It could potentially have L and R buttons flush with the controller for sideways use as well. Obviously it should have the Motion+ gyroscope included, and it should have a nunchuk attachment for analog stick control. Basically, don't reinvent the wheel; the basic goal is to be perfect for both Wii Sports and Mario Bros. The other games can fall in line from there.

The technology. Graphics power isn't important. Wii 2 only needs to be able to do Wii level graphics at 720 or 1080. The most important thing is that loading times must be reduced. Gamecube had the fastest loading times of any disc medium console, and that is what Nintendo need to shoot for. Games like Brawl and DKC Returns were significantly hampered by unacceptably long loading times. There are probably some inherent limitations to using discs as the medium, but that is the primary thing Nintendo needs to overcome. Also more important than simple graphic resolution are, in no order: Reducing controller response lag. Maintaining 60 FPS. Keeping the system small, quiet and efficient. Recognizing high amounts of controllers to make Wii Fit better.

The GUI. The channels system is great and shouldn't be changed that much. The main change should be a way to boot the game up right away. Put the intrusive government-mandated warning screen to good use, and have it say "press A to load menu" and in smaller text "press B to load [game name]."

The launch games. The key games you need at launch are Wii Sports 3 and Mario Bros. The goal for both should be to blow the top off of the amount of content. It goes without saying that the content must be high quality. But less attention should be paid to "saving" content for other games; for example Wuhu Island in Wii Sports Resort had tennis courts you could find with the planes. However tennis was not in the game, and the Mario Tennis game was released around the same time. That needs to stop. Instead, stuff Wii Sports 3 with about 20 sports, and put them in a new environment like Wuhu Island. Make sure all of the key sports are included (tennis, golf, bowling, sword fights, archery, and airplanes, for starters) but also have a bunch of new sports including more sports like airplanes where you can explore the environment. Mario Bros. should aim for about 120 levels instead of the 25 year old standard of 75. That would give it the space to stay "safe" with all of the traditional environments and bosses, but also add at least 4 worlds worth of totally new environments and bosses. The design of the maps and the power-ups in NSMBW was very good, and should not be totally reinvented.

In the package. There should be two launch packages: One with Mario Bros., and one with Wii Sports. Each package has 2 controllers. And each costs $300 US. The idea here is to drive massive levels of hardware sales, after all. Nintendo should sacrifice high margins on additional controllers and on extra software in order to drive huge levels of hardware sales. The goal here ought to be selling 250 million systems, not simply reaching 100 million as in the past.

Extra controller packages. Nintendo had huge success with Wii Play because it had good gaming value with an extra controller. However they basically had a huge debacle when they segmented the install base with Motion+. Selling extra controllers, nunchuks AND Motion+ all separately creates a nightmare for customers, who want to buy games, not doodads. Nintendo should be looking to get 4 complete controllers attached to every system possible, to maximize the amount of players per household. That means they should sell complete controllers, including a nunchuk, for $50. But, they should also have a 2 controller plus software package for $100. The game should basically include every classic game that could be remade for 4-players, and could instead be sold as a download to milk customers, all in one package. Mario Bros., Duck Hunt, Wild Gunman, Dr. Mario, Yoshi, Yoshi's Cookie, Panel De Pon, Puyo Puyo, Tetris, Picross, Tanks, Excitebike, Wrecking Crew, plus mini-golf, pool, darts, etc. Even with all of that, this would be a super cheap game to develop. Put all the definitive 4-player versions in one box, and package it with 2 controllers for $100. Nintendo would set a record for 4-controller penetration.

The software cycle. Year 1 is driven by Mario Bros., Wii Sports and the 2-controller package. Year 2 is driven by Wii Fit and Mario Kart. Wii Fit should be able to use 2 balance boards and up to 4 Wii remotes. This would allow you to do a lot of aerobics type exercises using 2 controllers without a cord, and allow 2 people to play or work out together. The focus, as is the theme here, should be tons of content. The way to maintain a phenomenon is to keep high volumes of new and exciting content with each new edition. Mario Kart should also up the ante on content. Instead of 8 cups with 16 new tracks and 16 old ones, maybe add a 9th cup, with only 3 retro cups, for a total of 24 new tracks and 12 old ones. And, keeping with the theme, put 2 wheel attachments in the box. Those 4 or 5 games exhaust the games that obviously have a reasonable chance to sell 25 million copies.

Nintendo should then focus on games with the potential to sell 10 million copies, and ignore anything else. This does not mean Nintendo should not work on new properties, but new properties should be "back to basics" instead of competing directly with the types of games made for PlayStation and Xbox systems. Design a top-down JRPG, or a 2D space shooter, with great core mechanics designed to allow players to choose their play style. Existing franchises that are worthwhile as possible 10 million sellers include Mario Party, Mario Sports, 3D Mario, Donkey Kong, Smash Bros., Zelda, and even the likes of Kirby and Star Fox. Anything that was a phenomenon in the past can probably be one in the future if you go back to the basics of gameplay, design the game around the player so they can choose their own play style, and overload the game with new content. Not new features, and not fundamentally different mechanics. Just new content. Mario Sports, for example, largely gets the gameplay right, but not the content. Treat Mario Sports like Wii Sports, and load it with a dozen or more sports, all in a continuous Mushroom Kingdom world. Zelda tries to load a game with content, but misses the core gameplay. It's about action and adventure, not puzzles and scripted gameplay. When items are used to solve puzzles, every item feels like a key. When items are used to fight hoards of enemies, they feel like they make you more powerful and let you choose your playstyle.

And no game series should be milked. This means that every game should be made like it is the last game in the series. Wait 3 years between games in any series, and for many series, keep it at 1 per console. No need to have more than one Zelda or Mario Kart. But Mario Party you could do once in the 2nd year and once in the 5th year, for example. Mario Bros. and Wii Fit should definitely have 2 entries per console, and Wii Sports probably should too. Every new entry should be a serious reaction to the way players played the last entry, and just keep cranking up the new content.

Online store. Focus on the classic games. There is no need to compete directly with social gaming or mobile gaming, or to even worry about social gaming or mobile gaming. The bread and butter of the console industry is $50 games, which means you just have to make games that are worth $50. That means games where players can choose their own play style and have a ridiculously large amount of content to explore. Mobile and social games companies aim to present a low overall value to each customer, but to reach a high amount of customers through non-game centric platforms. This is why any classic puzzle or arcade style games that are better suited for social and mobile gaming should be bundled as 4-player party games and sold at retail instead of sold piecemeal online. No one buys a $300 system to access $5 games, and no-one uses a free platform like Facebook to access $50 games. 10 $50 customers are worth as much as 100 $5 customers plus 1000 free users.

Online gaming. Why worry about this? Put online into as many games as possible, but worry more about 4-controller penetration than online penetration. You want to own the living room and own house parties, not own online gaming. That said, the friend code system is ridiculous and should be made system-wide instead of game-by-game, and be overall less obtrusive.

Third party policy. Third parties are not that important. Nintendo should not focus that much on catering to third parties, because they will never have as much incentive to do so as Sony or MS, due to their weaker 1st parties. So Nintendo should just focus on the games which can drive the install base the highest, so that in years 5, 6 and beyond, when Nintendo is focusing on the next system, third parties can rule.

A truly healthy cycle. A truly healthy cycle would be selling an average of 30 million consoles a year for six years, before launching the new console, and then selling another 70 million after the new one launches. That would be 250 million consoles. This is what Wii might have done if Nintendo had kept the pedal to the floor. Too many games focused on features instead of content (Animal Crossing, Wii Music) and on rich linear experiences instead of player freedom (Zelda, Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong, Kirby). Plus the way that controllers were sold piece-by-piece and with a high margin, was focused on maximizing profit per customer instead of reaching more customers.

Basically, get desperate again. Cut out the non-gaming nonsense (graphics, online features) and get down to business. Get every game back to it's strength, load it with new content, and make sure the players are in charge. Sacrifice your margin on controllers and the idea of constant controller innovation (and upheaval) to achieve an unprecedented controller attach rate. Don't worry about or compete with social and mobile gaming, but make sure every game is worth $50. Cut down on loading times and make the channels screen optional to get players into the games faster. That is how to make Wii 2.

 

 

I will be shocked if anything close to this happens.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Around the Network

Sounds a lot like Wii 1 mate.

 

Its not impossible but yeah I agree that nothing close to that will likely happen.  I expect Wii 2 to be a whole new ball game.  I don`t think there is any good reason to release an HD Wii, even one with a slightly refined controller.  

 

Theres no hurry anyway.  Wii is still the console of the masses, console sales and third party support may be declining but first party software sales remain very strong.

 

 Overall I say think bigger!



TheGameFather said:

Sounds a lot like Wii 1 (would have been if Nintendo followed through) mate.

Fixed.

 

Its not impossible but yeah I agree that nothing close to that will likely happen.  I expect Wii 2 to be a whole new ball game.  I don`t think there is any good reason to release an HD Wii, even one with a slightly refined controller.  

It will be an old ball game. It will be a return to the bad old days, like 3DS. It will be closer to Gamecube 2 than Wii 2. And btw, HD has almost nothing to do with what I outlined.

 

Theres no hurry anyway.  Wii is still the console of the masses, console sales and third party support may be declining but first party software sales remain very strong.

Nintendo profits have nosedived lately. I think it's largely due to the strong yen. But 1st party software hasn't been great either. The last 3 holiday seasons have had only 1 hit first party title. Ubisoft and Just Dance is bailing Nintendo out big time, and it's only a matter of time before Ubi wrecks that series.

 

 Overall I say think bigger!

I think there is very little that could possibly be bigger than what I outlined.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

RolStoppable said:

I admit that I have barely skimmed through the OP, but I think I know what the basic idea is.

Nintendo's main problem is that what makes them the most successful goes directly against what third parties want and if Nintendo does what third parties want, then their console sales suffer due to things that drive up the costs. Now in the handheld space that isn't so much of a problem, because Nintendo's only competitor is weak, but for home consoles it's a different story.

Nintendo will suffer another third party lockout, if they make another Wii (refering to the early years). I guess they could succeed, if they kept a steady direction and didn't lose focus like they did with the Wii (refering to the later years). The biggest problem though is that Nintendo doesn't make all kinds of games themselves, so they won't be able to build a wellrounded games library which eventually forces parts of their userbase to buy a competitor's console while non-owners may never be convinced to invest in Nintendo hardware (which is what is happening to the Wii right now). On the other hand, pushing more into a Gamecube 2 direction is going to end up even worse.

Regarding the 3DS, I think it will take a while until we notice a downward trend in sales compared to the DS. Not only because the DS's first year was weak, but also because I think that Nintendo is going to absorb some of Sony's PSP base. Of course those people getting on board won't make up for all the DS owners Nintendo will lose out on in the long run. It's just going to take a while, before sales numbers make Nintendo realize that the 3DS direction was the wrong one to go.


Don't overestimate the power that third parties have over Nintendo. The perfect example is Apple over the last 8-10 years. They still can't compete against Windows, and not only that, but even when they enter a new market like smartphones, they aren't the leader, but actually in 3rd place. In markets where the competition is weak, like music sales, they become the leader. But all they do is control what products THEY make, and they now are making Microsoft-level profits and are the second largest company in terms of market cap in the world. Second place is PC OS. Third place in smartphones. First place in the massively declining music retail market. And the only company bigger then them in the whole world is ExxonMobile. All because they just worry about what they can make, and what they are good at making, and don't worry about playing a balance game.

Nintendo doesn't have to give a rat's ass about shooters or GTA clones. They don't have the expertise to make those games. What's wrong is when they make Animal Crossing for Wii a straight remake of all the older versions with some online features tacked on. Or remake Nintendogs for 3DS exactly the same but with CATS OMG. Or when even 20 years later, each new Mario game is roughly equal to SMB3 in the amount of content, except now it's mostly remixed old content instead of new content. What's wrong is putting tennis courts in Wii Sports Resort, but then cutting tennis out of the game to maximize sales of Mario Tennis.

Think of all the genres that have enjoyed consistent popularity or explosive popularity in gaming history. 2D platforming. Sports. Pet Sims. Life Sims. Action/adventure. RPGs. Block-drop puzzle games. Fitness. Arcade Racers. Fighters. Mini-games. Nintendo has the ability to be king in ALL of these areas. There are actually more "unclaimed" genres, like 2D shooters, music games and even the Brain Game genre that Nintendo discarded, then there are areas where Nintendo are unable to compete, like FPS games. But Nintendo move slowly in those areas and treat Zelda and 3D Mario like they are "special," maxing out production values while they undercut the core mechanics of those series. And only the Pokemon and Mario Kart teams really "get it" in terms of how to make consistently great, popular, console-selling games.

Nintendo has ruined Animal Crossing, Zelda and Metroid. They are in the process of likely ruining Nintendogs... Wii Fit Plus was an incremental upgrade that doesn't bode well for the future of that series. Instead of making "Mii Sports 3D" they made about 1/20th of a proper game with PilotWings Resort. I mean, 1 sport with 1 level that everyone has already played? WOW. They are flipping the bird to their customers and thinking that if they have a clever gimmick like new controls or 3D images, they can get away with it. They are going to end up with 2D Mario selling 20 million but being a fraction of what it could be, and Pokemon and Mario Kart dragging a carcass of a company from one declining console to the next. And everyone will look at all the best sellers for Wii and DS and say "Wow. Guess ALL of those games were fads."



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Where's the revolutionary idea?



Around the Network
RolStoppable said:

Well, I did say that Nintendo could succeed, if they didn't pull crap like the one you mentioned several examples of. I'd like to say something that refutes some of the stuff you said, but in the end it probably is going to come down to your conclusion: That all the Wii and DS games will end up being looked at as fads, because Nintendo is unable or unwilling to really follow up on what they started. 

Although I do think that you are selling Pilotwings Resort a little bit short. It's the title of the series with the most stuff to do in it, but then again the expectations for the amount of content that has to be in a video game have risen in the past 15 years, so it's not really all that great. Meh. I guess you do have a point there as well.

In some ways it's fascinating how Nintendo managed to rise from almost irrelevance to heaven in a matter of a couple of years only to destroy its newfound success just as quickly as it was achieved.

I don't even know how much it is about rising expectations for the level of content. It's not like the old Pilotwings games sold at Mario or Pokemon levels. But Wii Sports Resort certainly would have sold at Mario or Pokemon levels without the current bundling, had it not required extra doo-dads and turned the controller situation into a mess.

What I'm saying is that the expectation for the level of content in a game was really high ever since Super Mario Bros. came out. Games without a massive amount of content have been hard-pressed to create a phenomenon since then. When the success of Wii is built on Wii Sports, and Wii Sports Resort had 12 sports including, basically, Pilotwings, it's amazing that Nintendo could think releasing a game with JUST Pilotwings and JUST that one level we already played in WSR is somehow a worthwhile launch game! Pilotwings won't even be on the shelves by 3DS's second year, let alone be "evergreen." A Wii Sports style game would be successful even without the Wii remote, especially if it had Mario Kart style online.

That's why I want a Wii Play style game with all the old and new arcade style games. One I forgot was Alleyway. Just imagine that. In one package, definitive 4-player versions of:

Mario Bros.
Duck Hunt
Wild Gunman
Dr. Mario
Yoshi
Yoshi's Cookie
Panel De Pon
Puyo Puyo
Tetris
Picross
Tanks
Excitebike
Wrecking Crew
Alleyway
Mini-Golf
Pool
Darts

2 controllers with a Super Wii and either Wii Sports 3 or Mario Bros. for $300. And then 2 more controllers with all of those games in 4-player for $100. Use those great games to attach 4 controllers to each console, not to pointlessly drive online sales by selling them for $5 each. Someone at Nintendo should be writing this down.

The only part of my scenario likely to play out is Mario Kart. 9 cups, 6 of them new, and 3 of them old. Since MKW already did the "best of" old MKs, this one could have a DS Cup, Wii Cup and 3DS Cup, plus 6 new cups. The Mario Kart team "gets it" and just makes a lot of great new content for each game.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

I hope you had a nice trip there. Don't really see anything out of the ordinary in the OP.

Didn't like this though:''Wii 2 only needs to be able to do Wii level graphics at 720 or 1080. The most important thing is that loading times must be reduced.''

Wii level graphics in HD!? You serious? You know how cheap it'll be for Ninty to launch a console 3x as powerful as PS3? It wouldn't be very expensive at all. I wouldn't buy your console.

:P



I hope you had a nice trip there. Don't really see anything out of the ordinary in the OP.

Didn't like this though:''Wii 2 only needs to be able to do Wii level graphics at 720 or 1080. The most important thing is that loading times must be reduced.''

Wii level graphics in HD!? You serious? You know how cheap it'll be for Ninty to launch a console 3x as powerful as PS3? It wouldn't be very expensive at all. I wouldn't buy your console.

:P

EDIT: OOPS



Dr.Grass said:

I hope you had a nice trip there. Don't really see anything out of the ordinary in the OP.

Didn't like this though:''Wii 2 only needs to be able to do Wii level graphics at 720 or 1080. The most important thing is that loading times must be reduced.''

Wii level graphics in HD!? You serious? You know how cheap it'll be for Ninty to launch a console 3x as powerful as PS3? It wouldn't be very expensive at all. I wouldn't buy your console.

:P

EDIT: OOPS

Agreed. There is nothing in the OP that is a significant improvement over the interface between the user and console to justify my purchase.There is nothing you suggest that even comes close to what Kinect is doing. Nintendo doesnt think like you.

If I wanted 1080p graphics, I would just buy a 360 or PS3.



Kinect looks lame. Where are the games? The early success of Kinect is due to how much Nintendo screwed up. Nintendo failed to deliver the type of games I laid out in the OP, which is why people were so hungry for Kinect.

"Significant improvement in interface"? The main problems in the interface of Wii are:

1. Piecemeal controllers. Some multiplayer games need multiple nunchuks; others need multiple Motion , and everything is sold seperately.

2. Tiny, cramped D-pad. Making the D-pad so dinky and too far to the left is the sign that Nintendo doesn't really care about 2D Mario.

3. No simultaneous multiplayer in Wii Fit.

So that's what Nintendo needs to address in terms of interface. They need to make a controller that can be a perfect standard for both Wii Sports and 2D Mario. That's why I think they should just make a simple "dogbone" shaped controller that would be shaped like a thinner SNES controller, thin enough to be gripped like a remote in the middle. And then just make the Wii accept more controller signals to make multiplayer Wii Fit.

Constant revolution is not healthy. A revolutionary war every 500 years might make most people more free. Revolutionary war all the time is bad. Nintendo needed to use Wii to get back to the roots of their success and then build from that anew.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.