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Forums - Gaming - George Hotz Runs Away to South America; Lies About Having PSN Account

Khuutra on 26 March 2011
Calmador said:
vlad321 said:

My whole point goes all the way back to the first thing I said. Pirates are dissatisfied for one reason or another. This is because of the shitty business models of companies. Obviously there are are other business models which succeed even at free prices, but I'm sure you don't even have to be free to make pirates buy your stuff instead of pirating it. In the end, shit business models get hurt by pirates, not the good ones.

Let's say the business model of the video game industry is flawed and you know it definitly is (we can definitely find some flaws if we look) ... so how does that give someone the right to steal?

And all business """"LIKE"""" the video game industry suffers from piracy.

I am tired of you two running around in circles.

Piracy is not theft. Iti s copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement is legally distinct from theft.

You can talk about it on some moral level all you want, but legally speaking it is not theft.

Piracy is not theft. It is copyright infringement. Which isn't theft.



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Calmador on 26 March 2011
Khuutra said:
Calmador said:
vlad321 said:

My whole point goes all the way back to the first thing I said. Pirates are dissatisfied for one reason or another. This is because of the shitty business models of companies. Obviously there are are other business models which succeed even at free prices, but I'm sure you don't even have to be free to make pirates buy your stuff instead of pirating it. In the end, shit business models get hurt by pirates, not the good ones.

Let's say the business model of the video game industry is flawed and you know it definitly is (we can definitely find some flaws if we look) ... so how does that give someone the right to steal?

And all business """"LIKE"""" the video game industry suffers from piracy.

I am tired of you two running around in circles.

Piracy is not theft. Iti s copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement is legally distinct from theft.

You can talk about it on some moral level all you want, but legally speaking it is not theft.

Piracy is not theft. It is copyright infringement. Which isn't theft.

I know that Mr Khuutra

That's annother good point to be against piracy... it's illegal. Piracy is theft on a moral stance though, making pirates thieves.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Khuutra on 26 March 2011
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:

I am tired of you two running around in circles.

Piracy is not theft. Iti s copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement is legally distinct from theft.

You can talk about it on some moral level all you want, but legally speaking it is not theft.

Piracy is not theft. It is copyright infringement. Which isn't theft.

I know that Mr Khuutra

That's annother good point to be against piracy... it's illegal. Piracy theft on a moral stance though, making pirates thieves.

No. No no no no no no no.

Listen.

The reason that piracy is not theft - whihch is to say, it is copyright infringement - is because thievery necessitates the removal of property. Piracy does not take away anyone's property. It makes a copy without permission. That is why it is copyright infringement and not theft; because it doesn't take away product from anyone.

It is not theft.

It is copyright infringement.

Stop tyring to pretend that it is theft. The exercise is absurd and intellectually dishonest.



Calmador on 26 March 2011
Khuutra said:
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:

I am tired of you two running around in circles.

Piracy is not theft. Iti s copyright infringement.

Copyright infringement is legally distinct from theft.

You can talk about it on some moral level all you want, but legally speaking it is not theft.

Piracy is not theft. It is copyright infringement. Which isn't theft.

I know that Mr Khuutra

That's annother good point to be against piracy... it's illegal. Piracy theft on a moral stance though, making pirates thieves.

No. No no no no no no no.

Listen.

The reason that piracy is not theft - whihch is to say, it is copyright infringement - is because thievery necessitates the removal of property. Piracy does not take away anyone's property. It makes a copy without permission. That is why it is copyright infringement and not theft; because it doesn't take away product from anyone.

It is not theft.

It is copyright infringement.

Stop tyring to pretend that it is theft. The exercise is absurd and intellectually dishonest.

I'm not pretending.

 It's not the usual kind of theft but it's theft.

 



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

Khuutra on 26 March 2011
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:

No. No no no no no no no.

Listen.

The reason that piracy is not theft - whihch is to say, it is copyright infringement - is because thievery necessitates the removal of property. Piracy does not take away anyone's property. It makes a copy without permission. That is why it is copyright infringement and not theft; because it doesn't take away product from anyone.

It is not theft.

It is copyright infringement.

Stop tyring to pretend that it is theft. The exercise is absurd and intellectually dishonest.

I'm not pretending.

 It's not the usual kind of theft but it's theft.

When I reach the point where I've laid out exactly why a person is wrong, and repeated that point nearly a dozen times, and shown them how their assertion is legally wrong, and why their assertion can't be right by definition

And when the person I'm talking to holds to the very fact of that wrongness, hohlding to the manner in whihch they are wrong like a man holding shut the jaws of an alligator

And holding

And holding

I sit back and I think, "I knew this would happen when I entered into this conversation."

So yes, you can have it. So be it. Continue being wrong. I have nothing else to say.



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Calmador on 26 March 2011
Khuutra said:
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:

No. No no no no no no no.

Listen.

The reason that piracy is not theft - whihch is to say, it is copyright infringement - is because thievery necessitates the removal of property. Piracy does not take away anyone's property. It makes a copy without permission. That is why it is copyright infringement and not theft; because it doesn't take away product from anyone.

It is not theft.

It is copyright infringement.

Stop tyring to pretend that it is theft. The exercise is absurd and intellectually dishonest.

I'm not pretending.

 It's not the usual kind of theft but it's theft.

When I reach the point where I've laid out exactly why a person is wrong, and repeated that point nearly a dozen times, and shown them how their assertion is legally wrong, and why their assertion can't be right by definition

And when the person I'm talking to holds to the very fact of that wrongness, hohlding to the manner in whihch they are wrong like a man holding shut the jaws of an alligator

And holding

And holding

I sit back and I think, "I knew this would happen when I entered into this conversation."

So yes, you can have it. So be it. Continue being wrong. I have nothing else to say.

I'm not wrong.

Your defining theft on whether what you stole is physical or not. I think that doesn't matter.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

vlad321 on 26 March 2011
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:
Calmador said:
Khuutra said:

No. No no no no no no no.

Listen.

The reason that piracy is not theft - whihch is to say, it is copyright infringement - is because thievery necessitates the removal of property. Piracy does not take away anyone's property. It makes a copy without permission. That is why it is copyright infringement and not theft; because it doesn't take away product from anyone.

It is not theft.

It is copyright infringement.

Stop tyring to pretend that it is theft. The exercise is absurd and intellectually dishonest.

I'm not pretending.

 It's not the usual kind of theft but it's theft.

When I reach the point where I've laid out exactly why a person is wrong, and repeated that point nearly a dozen times, and shown them how their assertion is legally wrong, and why their assertion can't be right by definition

And when the person I'm talking to holds to the very fact of that wrongness, hohlding to the manner in whihch they are wrong like a man holding shut the jaws of an alligator

And holding

And holding

I sit back and I think, "I knew this would happen when I entered into this conversation."

So yes, you can have it. So be it. Continue being wrong. I have nothing else to say.

I'm not wrong.

Your defining theft on whether what you stole is physical or not. I think that doesn't matter.

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent"

The only way you can argue that piracy is theft is if you classify ideas as property and that when I buy a game the game isn't mine, but the person to whose idea it is.

However if you go down the path of classifying ideas as properties, you run into so many problems and pitfalls, that you realize it is just silly to consider ideas the same as physical property. Therfore, you are wrong.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Calmador on 27 March 2011
vlad321 said:
Calmador said:

'm not wrong.

Your defining theft on whether what you stole is physical or not. I think that doesn't matter.

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent"

The only way you can argue that piracy is theft is if you classify ideas as property and that when I buy a game the game isn't mine, but the person to whose idea it is.

However if you go down the path of classifying ideas as properties, you run into so many problems and pitfalls, that you realize it is just silly to consider ideas the same as physical property. Therfore, you are wrong.

I'm not talking about the legal definition. I'm talking about it morally.

Yes intillectual property can be stolen, it is sold for the ownership of ONE person, not as many copies as you can make. You weren't sold infinite copies of the game. It can be stolen, physcially, a game disc from a retail store or just dowloading a copy from a torrent or a copy from a friend. What's not to understand?

EDIT: Thinking about it.. the physical part of the game is worth very little... the value in the game is the information (digital side) to it. That's what truly is being stolen, physical side of it is simply holding the game.



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.

vlad321 on 27 March 2011
Calmador said:
vlad321 said:
Calmador said:

'm not wrong.

Your defining theft on whether what you stole is physical or not. I think that doesn't matter.

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent"

The only way you can argue that piracy is theft is if you classify ideas as property and that when I buy a game the game isn't mine, but the person to whose idea it is.

However if you go down the path of classifying ideas as properties, you run into so many problems and pitfalls, that you realize it is just silly to consider ideas the same as physical property. Therfore, you are wrong.

I'm not talking about the legal definition. I'm talking about it morally.

Yes intillectual property can be stolen, it is sold for the ownership of ONE person, not as many copies as you can make. You weren't sold infinite copies of the game. It can be stolen, physcially, a game disc from a retail store or just dowloading a copy from a torrent or a copy from a friend. What's not to understand?

So then you don't own the games you buy? Even better, you are implying that ideas are like physical property. What happens when two people come up with the same ideas? What about when a person has an idea but doesn't do anything about it, but someone else realizes it? I had the ida of YouTube back in 2000, yet no one paid me money when someone else made it. Furthermore, how long are ideas your property? They never rust, wear out, or break, so how long should an idea be property, and why such a length of time?

There are dozens and dozens of other problems with your train of thought, which is the exact reason why treating an idea as property, the way you do, is just plain wrong.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

Calmador on 27 March 2011
vlad321 said:
Calmador said:
vlad321 said:
Calmador said:

'm not wrong.

Your defining theft on whether what you stole is physical or not. I think that doesn't matter.

"In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent"

The only way you can argue that piracy is theft is if you classify ideas as property and that when I buy a game the game isn't mine, but the person to whose idea it is.

However if you go down the path of classifying ideas as properties, you run into so many problems and pitfalls, that you realize it is just silly to consider ideas the same as physical property. Therfore, you are wrong.

I'm not talking about the legal definition. I'm talking about it morally.

Yes intillectual property can be stolen, it is sold for the ownership of ONE person, not as many copies as you can make. You weren't sold infinite copies of the game. It can be stolen, physcially, a game disc from a retail store or just dowloading a copy from a torrent or a copy from a friend. What's not to understand?

So then you don't own the games you buy? Even better, you are implying that ideas are like physical property. What happens when two people come up with the same ideas? What about when a person has an idea but doesn't do anything about it, but someone else realizes it? I had the ida of YouTube back in 2000, yet no one paid me money when someone else made it. Furthermore, how long are ideas your property? They never rust, wear out, or break, so how long should an idea be property, and why such a length of time?

There are dozens and dozens of other problems with your train of thought, which is the exact reason why treating an idea as property, the way you do, is just plain wrong.

Where exactly are you taking this conversation to now?

Look ideas aren't the easiest thing to tack.. that's why you have to copyright your ideas as soon as think them up. That's our little system that keeps things in check. That's the best we can do about it and that takes care of all your questions.

Took care of your dozens and dozens of problems. Stealing is just plain wrong.

I'm going to sleep, I've take care of all what you've brought up. Accept it. Enough of these lame excuses... just accept it. That's what you have to do...you know it's wrong but you've come up with so many empty excuse. Accept it.

ttyl



All gaming systems, consoles/PC, have thier perks... why fight over preferences? I like Coke and you like Pepsi, that's it, let's not fight over which toy we like best cause that's what they are. Is someone's preference in a toy important or is the relationship between you and your neighbor more important? Answer is obvious, but THE most important thing is your relationship with God almighty. God Bless you in Jesus's name.

I can communicate without talking... I can send a loved one money without actually sending money... and I can commit theft without the product disappearing, the point of theft is the point of theft not one of it's possible symptoms which is the product dissappearing. The thief wants to gain something without paying for it, that's the point of theft, the thief doesn't have to care or anybody else has to care if the product dissappears. The product dissappearing is just a possible symptom of theft. Gifts are sacrfices, in order to give a gift, it has to be a genuine sacrfice/gift, meaning a copy of the game isn't still in your PC. Piracy is theft and/or being a culprit of theft.