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Forums - Gaming - Sony's plan to usurp 3DS with their PSP2 revealed

 

Sony's plan to usurp 3DS with their PSP2 revealed

Sony FTW! 185 69.55%
 
Nintendo is d0med 81 30.45%
 
Total:266

which team made the gran turismo game for PSP?



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
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RolStoppable said:
thismeintiel said:

<snip>  However, your comment about Mario 64 being a spin off is incorrect.  It was indeed a main entry to the series.  You can't justify calling a game a spinoff because it is in 3D as opposed to 2D.  Of course the previous ones were in 2D, the HW couldn't handle anything else.  But, when the HW could handle 3D well, they made the shift to 3D just like all franchises at that time.  I mean that would be like saying every Zelda game  now, except the one on the DS, are spinoffs because they are in 3D.  It's just not true.  And you definitely can't go by sales to determine what is a main entry and what is a spin-off.

Super Mario 64 was only believed to be a main entry for the longest time, but in hindsight the market's reaction makes it clear that the game marks the beginning of a new spinoff series. Mario's jump to 3D (no pun intended) was accompanied by drastic changes to the gameplay formula. The Super Mario Bros. titles (the mainline) are all about reaching the flagpole or an equivalent at the end of the level, but the 3D Mario games were about playing the same levels several times over to collect stars in different locations.

Due to their different nature, these games were never able to match the sales of the SMB titles. The sales of the Galaxy games vs. NSMB Wii show that it never was about declining interest in the Mario franchise, but rather the market considers these titles to be different series. If you still don't want to accept that sales can be used to determine what is a main entry and what is a spinoff, there's still the issue of differing gameplay which is characteristic for spinoffs.

Zelda in 3D really isn't all that different to the 2D versions, just like JRPGs haven't changed at their core when going 3D. It's more or less just a different perspective being used, that's why these types of games still worked while most sidescrolling games like Contra, Castlevania and countless platformers ended up being complete trash or disappointing. By the way, there are two Zelda games on the DS and both are in 3D.

Again, you're trying to use sales to determine what is a spinoff or main entry.  You can't do that.  Especially considering many early Mario games saw A LOT of their sales from bundling of the popular HW, which hurt Mario 64 sales in compariosn when N64 didn't sell so well.  And as far as gameplay, yes Sunshine was quite different, which is why I won't argue against it being a "spin-off."  Mario 64, on the other hand, has gameplay much like the original games.  The only differences (and there weren't really that many) only came about because of additions needed to be made to accommodate the transition to a fully explorable 3D world. 

Now, let's say next gen the next Nintendo console fails to sell close to what MS or Sony's next offerings sell.  Say Nintendo releases a new Mario that, for the most part, is just like SMBWii.  It obviously isn't going to sell as well as Mario's Wii offerings.  Will that make it a "spin-off" by default?  Of course not.  Which shows that your reinvisioning the history of what Nintendo made as a main entry vs. spinoff by sales is flawed.



For comparison, GoW GoS is a late gen PSP game where no other PSP game really comes close since it uses fixed camera angles it can use a little more juice it saves from having a more open world and free camera.  On the other hand you have 3DS running the MT Framework engine, higher poly count, more enemies, lighting engines, much better texture work, etc and it's rendering each image twice to give the 3D effect and this is coming out within the first few months of the 3DS' life... only slightly better... right...



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

MaxwellGT2000 said:

For comparison, GoW GoS is a late gen PSP game where no other PSP game really comes close since it uses fixed camera angles it can use a little more juice it saves from having a more open world and free camera.  On the other hand you have 3DS running the MT Framework engine, higher poly count, more enemies, lighting engines, much better texture work, etc and it's rendering each image twice to give the 3D effect and this is coming out within the first few months of the 3DS' life... only slightly better... right...

It certainly looks better than any game on the PSP without a doubt, but it doent blow it away sadly. I would compare it as xbox to PS2. 



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
psrock said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:

For comparison, GoW GoS is a late gen PSP game where no other PSP game really comes close since it uses fixed camera angles it can use a little more juice it saves from having a more open world and free camera.  On the other hand you have 3DS running the MT Framework engine, higher poly count, more enemies, lighting engines, much better texture work, etc and it's rendering each image twice to give the 3D effect and this is coming out within the first few months of the 3DS' life... only slightly better... right...

It certainly looks better than any game on the PSP without a doubt, but it doent blow it away sadly. I would compare it as xbox to PS2. 


For the love of God people need to take off the nostalgia goggles... 

Nothing and I mean NOTHING last gen looked that good, hell it's like the people trying to say SMG looks like an Xbox game, it doesn't, these have been ranked some of the best and best looking Xbox titles... It DOES NOT stack up to the likes of RE5, hell they said the Wii couldn't run MT Framework for the longest time and it's stronger than the Xbox.  Please PSP is weaker than PS2 and 3DS is stronger than Xbox... and between PS2 and Xbox was a pretty big leap for most games especially if they were multiplat.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

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MaxwellGT2000 said:


For the love of God people need to take off the nostalgia goggles... 

Nothing and I mean NOTHING last gen looked that good, hell it's like the people trying to say SMG looks like an Xbox game, it doesn't, these have been ranked some of the best and best looking Xbox titles... It DOES NOT stack up to the likes of RE5, hell they said the Wii couldn't run MT Framework for the longest time and it's stronger than the Xbox.  Please PSP is weaker than PS2 and 3DS is stronger than Xbox... and between PS2 and Xbox was a pretty big leap for most games especially if they were multiplat.

The leap from PS2 to X-box wasn't that big.  It is like the PSP to 3DS, yes it can pump out a few extra polygons, but the biggest difference is the AA and shadowing/lighting effects.  Though, honestly, the models (especially the zombies) and shadows weren't all that great in that vid you posted of RE:M, anyway.  And sorry, but it doesn't look as good as this:

Edit:  One other thing.  it's a misconception that the 3DS is taxed twice as hard because it has to render the same image twice.  The fact is, the game is only rendered once.  The in game cameras only has to capture the rendered scene twice, one at a slightly different angle than the other.  It would tax the 3DS less than split screen multiplayer, as that HAS to render the game twice to display different parts of the level at the same time.  Well, unless its a game where the whole level is rendered at the start of every level, which I doubt many do.  Just don't go thinking if someone made a game on the 3DS, sans the 3D, it would look twice as good as the games coming out for it now.



MaxwellGT2000 said:

For the love of God people need to take off the nostalgia goggles...


I remembered Actraiser 2 was beatiful and nothing this gen has matched it graphically.



thismeintiel said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:


For the love of God people need to take off the nostalgia goggles... 

Nothing and I mean NOTHING last gen looked that good, hell it's like the people trying to say SMG looks like an Xbox game, it doesn't, these have been ranked some of the best and best looking Xbox titles... It DOES NOT stack up to the likes of RE5, hell they said the Wii couldn't run MT Framework for the longest time and it's stronger than the Xbox.  Please PSP is weaker than PS2 and 3DS is stronger than Xbox... and between PS2 and Xbox was a pretty big leap for most games especially if they were multiplat.

The leap from PS2 to X-box wasn't that big.  It is like the PSP to 3DS, yes it can pump out a few extra polygons, but the biggest difference is the AA and shadowing/lighting effects.  Though, honestly, the models (especially the zombies) and shadows weren't all that great in that vid you posted of RE:M, anyway.  And sorry, but it doesn't look as good as this:

Edit:  One other thing.  it's a misconception that the 3DS is taxed twice as hard because it has to render the same image twice.  The fact is, the game is only rendered once.  The in game cameras only has to capture the rendered scene twice, one at a slightly different angle than the other.  It would tax the 3DS less than split screen multiplayer, as that HAS to render the game twice to display different parts of the level at the same time.  Well, unless its a game where the whole level is rendered at the start of every level, which I doubt many do.  Just don't go thinking if someone made a game on the 3DS, sans the 3D, it would look twice as good as the games coming out for it now.

Uh Doom 3 has bad textures like the rest of those Xbox games I showed off and their models aren't that great compared to today's standards which is what the 3DS is living up to....

I'm just going to stop replying to you now cause you're just so far gone that you're even posting videos that look better and thinking they do, not to mention they don't do more on a technical level, I'm guessing either you don't know what being superior on a technical level is or you're grounded so deeply against the 3DS it isn't even funny, and either way it makes any "disscussion" with you pretty much pointless on my end, since I'll post proof for it to only be rejected, while I'll still be open minded if someone could actually prove my point wrong. 



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

Galaki said:
buglebum said:

Think of a 12 inch penis, a 2 inch penis and a 4 inch penis :)

So, PSP has a 2'' penis, PS3 has a 12'' penis and PSP2 will have a 4'' penis.

Does that make all male owners of Sony consoles gay?


I assumed the rainbow on the outside of this thread stood for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six.  Obviously, I'm in the wrong place.

*leaves thread*



jarrod said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

1. don't care about nintendo, not sure what the point of you typing all that was, didn;t even bother reading it. This is about psp

2. If you also think his statement about how he can't think of any other major studio support for the psp other than japan studio and 'ape escape' I won't waste anymore of my time with you (or him for that matter)

3. Sony first party have always supported the handhelds well. Just because Santa Monica (well they did colab on GoS) and ND and few others didn't pitch in on the psp doesn't mean anything

4. Doesn't seem like any of you have played games made by teams like Bend for the psp. hence this nonsense of 'treating as secondary' comes to play. Games will be smaller obviously on the handheld, expecting otherwise is foolishness. And main teams who worked on the original IP made the same games for the handheld too like GG, PD, Inocognito, Bend, Zipper. All those game were of good quality as well.

seriously not sure why I even bother at this point :S you guys are stuck in this one frame of mind about the psp and support it got that you refuse to look beyond it. I'm done with this thread and responding to ignorant comments like this.

1. Actually, this thread is about 3DS and NGP.  I just brought us full circle and back on topic. ;)

2. You're missing his point, it's that (mostly) only Japan really seems to take PlayStation handhelds seriously.  SCEA/SCEE doesn't, they farm out brands to secondary teams or largely just don't put in the effort.  And this thinking seems to have jumped right over to NGP, despite their clear failings with this approach for PSP in the west. 

3. No, having their AAA teams not make PSP/NGP games means exactly that they're not supporting the handheld side as well as they should be.  This is why I drew the Nintendo comparison, they literally bring their A game to DS/3DS, it's the real deal.  This is why they dominate, because essentially they don't believe in the "handheld ghetto".  Sony's ideology is their biggest enemy in the handheld arena.

4. It's not just teams, it's scope (which I mentioned before).  Super Mario or Mario Kart or Animal Crossing... across handhelds or consoles, they share a similar scope.  It's the "full experience", on DS or Wii (or now 3DS).  Killzone Liberation?  GT Portable?  Fireteam Bravo 1-2?  They're all cut down, smaller scope, smaller scale, sometimes different genre even, than their console counterparts.  Even just PS2 ports probably would've been preferable in all those cases.  And for Killzone and SOCOM, they've even moved to outsourced teams since.


What you said pretty much sums things up, my three favorite teams on Sonys payroll are Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Sony Japan, and only one of those teams has even supported the PSP... and they supported the PSP with a port of a mainline PS1 title and some minigame collections, so other than the port I really didn't care they made games on the PSP cause they're not what I want to play.  

Out of all the titles Sonys outsouced the only game to come out better than the mainline was Resistence and I will swear by that game, but the console series is probably some of the worst FPS mechanics so it's not hard (seriously they need to put Insomniac on some new platformer IP rather than some new FPS IP, but this is getting away from the topic)

Basically I buy Nintendo handhelds cause I know Nintendos first party will support them with a slew of mainline and quality titles, on the PSP I waited till there was enough support from Square till I got it (Crisis Core and bought a star wars white PSP with it) since then I've looked into things from every genre, the pickings are rather slim for good original titles on the PSP that are designed with the handheld mentality, most of them are cut down console games, and that's simply not what I nor most people want on the go.  This isn't me slamming my PSP since I've been playing it more than my DS the past month (because of tactics ogre) it's that those games that get me away from my DS are few and far between and rarely ever come from Sony themselves.  

Then I see NGPs line up and it's again outsourced games attached to IPs I generally don't care for, Uncharted is the only one I do care for, but by the looks of that game it's built around the same idea of the GoW and R&C games on PSP, take assets from the mainline, color by numbers, do nothing new, and done! I don't want to play that, sorry, I'll wait for reviews on the launch lineup and probably wait till if/when a Monster Hunter or a Kingdom Hearts title hits the NGP, in the mean time I'll just play my Capcom games and Kingdom Hearts on my 3DS.



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000