i give up, i was only trying to point out that sony offered an wealth of high quality first party titles as well 

No, it's just that everyone already owns a Wii :p

Eventually you just run out of customers

its mostly Ninty doing it to themselves, but yeah im sure Kinect has something to do with it a little. Holidays is over and people are still buying so thats got to mean something

For a person who doesn't care about motion gaming you sure have a lot of opinions. Clearly your feelings are not in touch with the consumers of motion gaming devices.

That's one way to look at the Balance Board and Wii Fit's success. But I think the Balance Board and Wii Fit just did a great job appealing to consumers who are trying to lose weight and Wii Fit looked like a fun way to exercise. Kinect is doing a great job attracting people with that thinking and obviously it has more potential for other genres. Its perfect for dance games, party games, exercise games, are other genres that popular amongst casual gamers. Even a high price point hasn't stopped it from being a massive success.

Once again, you're downplaying Wii's 2010 software. I could nit pick any year of Wii's software. As every year has been disappointing and lacking in my opinion.

And once again you show you're out of touch on what software casual consumers want on Kinect.

not true

Sure.  It's the new hot thing right now.

No, no. Malstrom said that it doesn't. Kinect is only harming the PS3, which is why the PS3 is down 40-45% and the Wii only 10-15... wait, I got something mixed up there.

There are several factors in the Wii decline, Kinect is only one of them. It did have some pretty solid titles launching before christmas and it had a big holiday season despite being down so a simple "lack of software" won't suffice as an explanation. It goes deeper than that.

I think these are the key factors in the recent decline; hardware, not only is it really starting to look outdated compared to everything else being released today, it continues to force developers into a narrow and difficult crevice of programming (narrow in the sheer power potential, difficult in having to have two different builds for cross platform development). Software; yes, there is a software problem. Namely that 3rd parties have all but adandoned the console a good while before the console lifecycle is through and in times where there is little to nothing enticing by way of 1st party efforts on the horizon. Lack of features; kind of ties in with hardware problems. The other consoles play movies, not only burnt on discs or through Blu-ray but also online services and stores. They also have huge online components in the middle of the golden age of internet as well as a lot more to offer in the way of connectivity and user interface (friend codes are cumbersome at best). This is a consequence of overlooking the importance of online features and possibilities. Implementation of tech; the 360 has brilliant online through Live and the PS3 has Blu-ray as a respective flagships along with the games while the Wii has motion controls. The problem is two-fold; the HD consoles also have motion controls, allbeit somewhat tacked on as afterthoughts and mimic behavior, its still there. And then there's this issue; how many Wii games make true and good use of Wii Motion Plus? Or the Wii-mote at all, really? They're not playing on the inherent strength that is (or, rater, could be) the Wii-mote.

Dedication/pride; I put this on it's own since I see it as the biggest factor in the decline. Nintendo have been winning hearts, profit charts and marketshare for a long time with their Wii and DS and have become decadent to the same point as Sony were at the start of this gen. Its like they don't even care any longer, no real efforts to aquire new talent through studio purchases (developers), lack of advertising in large parts of the world and a refusal to lower the price further. Yes, a great many of you claim that price is of little importance (some go so far as to claim that it is of no concern at all) but it truly is. With the price still hovering only slightly below launch price, the prices of accessories and peripherals (the highest prices by far of the three) and the fact that the 360 costs essentially the same, consumers are starting to see the lack of value for money in a very real way. Its not like Nintendo have lost money on hardware this generation, unlike Sony and MS and its not like developers and investors will like the incredible drop in hardware and software sales as a result of refusing to take measures. Developers today probably see Nintendo as a company that doesn't care about their own product and its not hard to see why 3rd parties have a strained relationship with them. Aside from simple history (3rd parties never liked working with Nintendo, since the 80's) there's also the fact that they launched a platform that was widely different in architecture and potential output and when things start to go downhill they seem either unwilling or unable to remedy it.

If things don't start happening very soon, Nintendo may find themselves in real trouble next gen if they leave this one selling the least by far and having little to nothing to show for in their battle to remain on top. The 3DS can't carry them alone and games and gaming are all they have to live off of. I know people are saying; "yes, but its still not doing bad compared to the others, its still selling well". This is true, sort of. But it went from incredible sales to decent sales over the course of 12-18 months and is on it's way down towards below mediocre sales. It doesn't matter whether or not it still remains above the worst numbers ever posted for the PS3 or 360, they were never on top and outsold the other two combined. Go back a couple of years on the forums, see the threads that spawned and the posts within. Take a look at the outlook of Nintendo, the assured way to 50% marketshare, the guaranteed shift of developer interest and effort, the ensured continuation of massive hardware sales for no particular reason other than simply being the Wii, the assured fact that it would easily outsell the PS2 because it was tracking above it. The list goes on. People say that the Wii is the most underestimated console this gen and perhaps even of all time. I say it is also the most overestimated.

Nintendo need to wake the hell up and not become what they scorned and cursed at the beginning of this generation (arrogant Sony and their insanity and proud MS willing to lose money and take shortcuts). They have to work at it. Hard.

i thinks i little bit but not as much as most think npd showed that wii was down 120k from last Jan and 360 up about 40k so its not like all the people that would of bought a wii went with a 360 instead

i believe that wii sales are down mostly do to its extremely high sales early on in its life it could be reaching saturation now

also in EU Wii sales are down but 360s arent up much from last yrs so this further makes me believe that kenict isnt the culprit

idk where ya'll be getting this PS3 are neck and neck from last yr the yr that kinect released, total WW numbers here on VGC are PS3 14.44M to 360 13.6M its total shipped gap for 2010 is over 2.3M in PS3s favor.   and in Jan of this yr PS3 outsold it  by over a 100k as for Feb yeah the 360s has outsold the PS3 so far by 25k, but if we remember correctly the case was similar in Jan it wasnt till a week or 2 ago the numbers changed more in the PS3s favor

Some good points.

I don't look at the gaps much, shipped consoles, etc. So many adjustments are made throughout the year that trying to follow is pointless. It seems like the gap jumps around and gets back to this point over and over again.

The neck and neck thing. I'm saying Kinect is doing a pretty good job at keeping sales steady since it launched. Without it, I think 360 would be below the Wii on a weekly basis.

See, here is what I don't get, Mummelman. Scrolling through your long wall of text, and amist all the "Nintendo is teh doomed!!1" jargon, what I am picking up is that your main thesis seems to be that Nintendo shouldn't rest on their laurels, and go into action to ensure they don't have their momentum shot for the next gen, and essentially dooming them for the next gen.

But with the Wii already obtaining an insurmountable lead, I feel it's the opposite. That is, they are putting MS and Sony in a tough spot and forcing them to play catch up. They are bascially in a lose lose situation from my view.

EITHER... Sony and MS continue to try to ride out the sales of their respective HD consoles, playing catch up with the Wii (which they will never come close to passing anyway). Meanwhile Nintendo launches a new console first and gains a huge headstart next gen.

OR... Sony and MS release their consoles first in an attempt to gain their own head start, and cuts off the life of 360 and PS3, essentially eliminating any hope of the HD consoles to draw closer to the Wii. Either way Nintendo has the advantage.

The ball is in Nintendo's court. They just need to act. I DO agree with you there. And they have PLENTY of cards in which to do it. Vitality Sensor/Wii Relax, Zelda, one to two $50 price cuts, DQX in Japan, more motion plus games, etc. MS and Sony have basically thrown everything they could at Wii, along with most third parties, including console redesigns, multiple pricedrops, and their own motion control versions.. and only NOW are they slightly outselling the console. It's just that Nintendo right now is focused on bringing out the 3DS, but this obviously does not mean they will be concentrated 100% on the 3DS from here on out...

It just makes me laugh how even after a Nintendo console sells 85 million with massive profits, 34 million units away from its nearest competitor, coming off a 22 million selling console.. they STILL get all the "DOOMED!" talk. People just LOVE to talk about Nintendo being in trouble.. Damned if I know why... Perhaps it's because they constantly make a profit, and people want to see them taken down a peg. Or maybe they are just sick of them. Whatever the reason, it is clear to me now that no matter WHAT Nintendo does, how successful they are, getting the "doomed" talk is about as certain as death and taxes :P