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Forums - Sony Discussion - SCE release Piracy Statement

LivingMetal on 18 February 2011
ameratsu said:

the amount of corporate dick riding going on in the comment section of the psblog is hilarious.

Guys... Sony isn't doing you any favours. It just so happens that maintaining the integrity of their online platform and discouraging piracy is in their best interest. Don't think for a second that Sony wouldn't do something that's horrible for gamers and consumers given the opportunity, like they have done in the past. It just so happens that the interests of normal online ps3 gamers and sony align in this case.


Their best interests translate to our best interests.  If they can sustain themselves as a successful business, they can continue churning out products.  You don't like what they have to offer, do business somewhere else.  I think we all know that Sony is not a charity, and Sony has to fend for themselves, first.  And because they can do so, it offers me  quality gaming options in this case.



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DonFerrari on 19 February 2011
dsister said:
phinch1 said:

1) So you'd have to stop playing the game you have just bought and wait for a hacker to release a patch to bypass the update.

2) is that for real? i did'nt have vidzone, quirocity, bbci player, 4OD, ITV player, mubi, love film, Psn vid store, or home when i first bought my ps3

3) I'd say about 1% of ps3 owners bought it for linux, No one batted an eye lid when it was removed with the slim design in 2009........because no one cared, Sony removed it because it seemed an easy access for people to hack the ps3.........why you making out sony to be the bad guy? the question you  could ask is what right did hackers have to mess with Son'y system and have linux removed for the rest of us? and by the rest of us , i mean the 1% that actually cared


1. Woah woah woah!?! Are you seriously saying that Sony has managed to update the firmware on the disc while you are playing it offline?! If not I fail to see what this has to do with our conversation...

2. Are those part of the PS3? Or part of the PSN network aka not actually features on the console itself?

3. Are you really blaming Geohot for that, really? Geohot made the tiniest little progress in a hack that not even the whole PS3 population could of taken advantage of.  Guess what? :o Had they just left him alone he probably would have hit a brickwall(Which he did!!) and then given up(Which he did!!), but no, they removed the only thing that was preventing 0verflow from hacking the console... Great job Sony!

...

Back to my point... Sony was dumping money into continually updating the hypervisor to be comaptible with the newer firmware updates. What a better way to get rid of the feature then to just blame it on the pirates...

3.5. So what if only 1% cared about the Linux capabilities? How are their feelings any less relevant then the rest of ours? They paid for the console just like you and I... They deserve to get what was promised for them

Heck, they were lied to by Sony a couple of weeks before they were raped...

Never have I used Linux on the PS3 and I likely won't, but I paid for the ability to have it, and play games, and go on PSN.

I didn't paid for linux or care about it, i could put in my computer and never cared about it.

About this Sony mistake that obligated Overflow to hack... i feel sorry for Overflow it were almost as if sony were messing with his thinks and he should stand to defend himself... owwwww wait it were the other way around... it's easier to blame the evil greedy company to defend their profit than a hacker that do things for himself saying it's for all user benefit when it isn't...

Let make an agreement or Sony have right to defend their interest as much as hackers and pirates have to modify and try to circunvent and use things they don't have right, or the hackers and pirates are wrong and sony shouldn't do anything.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Baalzamon on 19 February 2011

I didn't read through it, but I'm assuming it had something to do with this whole fiasco...I had to agree to a new terms of agreement last night when I tried signing into PSN.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

DonFerrari on 19 February 2011
Kasz216 said:
mchaza said:
Kasz216 said:
mchaza said:
ameratsu said:

the amount of corporate dick riding going on in the comment section of the psblog is hilarious.

Guys... Sony isn't doing you any favours. It just so happens that maintaining the integrity of their online platform and discouraging piracy is in their best interest. Don't think for a second that Sony wouldn't do something that's horrible for gamers and consumers given the opportunity, like they have done in the past. It just so happens that the interests of normal online ps3 gamers and sony align in this case.


well i am an full supporter of anti piracy. People who beleive piracy is good are idiots and truely naive. So i support what sony is doing as it is supporting the consumer if you dont understand because they are trying to reduce piracy so publishers can recieve money to publish more and better games for there system which results in more choice for the consumer and better expereinces for the consumer. 

so your point there is invailad


Just curious... how much research have you read on piracy to come to such a strong concusion?  Or are you just going off the "The earth is flat because we stand on it, anyone who think's it's round is an idiot and truly naive" type of thinking.

Research generally shows the opposite.  Outside of reasearch that comes directly from anti-piracy advocacy groups in anycase.

its simple really: 

Currently there are 3 groups of people when it comes to collecting music, movies, games:

People who pay for everything: the Right thing to do.

People who pay for an illegal copy at lower price: they are likely supporting an underground crimial organisation or pretty theives: this is generally the worst. 

People who download (or phyically recieve copies) for free. 

Now in society number 2 is slowly dying due to the rise of internet piracy, but number 3 is growing at an rapid pace because more and more people are learning the ways and the risk factor is very low since authories are too busy tracking the uploaders then presueing the downloaders. 

The only thing stopping everyone from doing number 3 is the immorals of stealing and the fact that an wide range of society dont know how to do it. 

Now what keeping the entertainment industry running is the 1st group but that is getting smaller and smaller every day as group 3 rises. Now just like any business they need money to produce products which they sell to make more money to produce better and more products. If there is no money then no products can be made, and this is were the priates excuses run dry. Because many have in there head that they are stealing from some billion dollar corporation that grows money on trees, while its true that they are stealing from an billion dollar corporation they dont have an endless supply of money and can go bust very quickly espeically in the entertainment industry (games in predictular). 

But lets take an example: 

Company x makes an game that cost 10 million to make. Company x needs to sell 500,000 copies to break even and pay off there debts. 

now if the priates got there way and allowed everyone to priate that game, the company wouldn't be able to sell 500,000 copies and goes bust, and closes down.  No more games are being made by that company. Soon more and more companies start closing because no one is buying there games are priating them instead. The end results: no games simple. 

Now another case would be that: 

company y makes an game that also costs 10 million and needs 500,000 copies: the game sells 600,000 and is priated 5 million times. now the company made an small profit from the game, now they can make an new game at the same budget and do it again. But if those 5 million bought the game, company y would of made heaps of money. there next game would get an budget of 20 million and has 4 more games in production. 

Now if there was No priacy today we would have proably around 100x more pc games than today and alot of high quality pc exclusives. more games = more choice = more jobs = win for everyone 

So an Priate saying that priating is good or not bad since they are taking from an billion dollar organsiation. But they dont get that they number in the millions and its not one guy stealing from an big organsation its millions of people and that hurts the organisations because thats alot of there cosumer base.

but pirates dont even target the big guys but prey on the small guys that cant afford drm and they get no money and in debt and close down fast. 

the priacy excuse of i cant afford it is wrong: since if you can afford and console or an decent gaming pc you can afford games. if you can afford to pay for that internet connection to download the games you can afford video games.

 

so basically priacy = bad

and the only way priacy can be accepted is you cannot under any circumstances get the game like you can get it posted to your country nor do your retail sells them or the game is so rare and not selling anywhere.  


Except... you know.  All credible research shows your wrong.

I mean, explain why all research done on it even by actual governments show piracy = not a problem.

The truth is you are looking at things from a very simplistic and childish way and ignoring the effects different things have on the markets and why people buy things.

You may as well be saying

"It's clear the earth is flat because we stand on it.  If it were round everything would be rolling around and balls stay still on the ground, so what are you stupid for thinking the world is round?"

or

"It's clear a childs sex depends on how you have sex because etc etc etc. ignore actual scientific research I'm right."

I mean, governments don't exactly have a reason to fabricate this stuff.  There are a LOT of factors including positive ones when it comes to piracy.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090119/1943093458.shtml

http://www.myce.com/news/study-shows-internet-piracy-actually-benefits-anime-sales-39639/

http://musicbusinessresearch.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/gao-report-on-the-economic-impact-of-piracy/

I mean, your free to your opinion, but it's the exact opposite of what is taught... pretty much EVERYWHERE when it comes to economics, so to downplay other people for their so far scientifically backed up... taught in colleges and economics point of view...

It just doesn't make sense.


yes the piracy in certain levels don't harm the industry but sometimes it can almost kill it (PSP and PC say hello). But anyway isn't because research say piracy can be neutral or even positive effect that you can think of yourself of a hero because you pirate. What you do is wrong, breach contract and copyright. At most you can say that you are not 100% destroying the industry.

But anyone that pirate 100% of their games can't say he is helping the industry ¬¬ . Let's accept a guy that pirate high profile games as GT5 or COD and Halo, but buy niche, indie and other less sold games... but usually it's the opposite people buy the blockbusters and pirate smaller games because they think is less worth (proportional, I know COD is much more pirated than a game like Flower), so they have a power to destroy small companies.

Bring all the excuses you want piracy won't suddenly become good and companies will support it nor the government.

(the you in this case isn't exactly you, but someone that piracy and argument that he is helping the industry).



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Baalzamon on 19 February 2011
DonFerrari said:


yes the piracy in certain levels don't harm the industry but sometimes it can almost kill it (PSP and PC say hello)

A couple of weeks ago a PSP developer specifically stated how they have made profit off of PSP games, so I disagree that it kills it.  Plus, PC industry is almost killed?  Have you not seen the info about Steam lately and the massive amount of downloads it has had?



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

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The Anarchyz on 19 February 2011
Baalzamon said:
DonFerrari said:


yes the piracy in certain levels don't harm the industry but sometimes it can almost kill it (PSP and PC say hello)

A couple of weeks ago a PSP developer specifically stated how they have made profit off of PSP games, so I disagree that it kills it.  Plus, PC industry is almost killed?  Have you not seen the info about Steam lately and the massive amount of downloads it has had?

People usually mistake killing with changing, the PC game industry has changed, but it's really alive...



Kasz216 on 19 February 2011
DonFerrari said:
Kasz216 said:
mchaza said:
Kasz216 said:
mchaza said:
ameratsu said:

the amount of corporate dick riding going on in the comment section of the psblog is hilarious.

Guys... Sony isn't doing you any favours. It just so happens that maintaining the integrity of their online platform and discouraging piracy is in their best interest. Don't think for a second that Sony wouldn't do something that's horrible for gamers and consumers given the opportunity, like they have done in the past. It just so happens that the interests of normal online ps3 gamers and sony align in this case.


well i am an full supporter of anti piracy. People who beleive piracy is good are idiots and truely naive. So i support what sony is doing as it is supporting the consumer if you dont understand because they are trying to reduce piracy so publishers can recieve money to publish more and better games for there system which results in more choice for the consumer and better expereinces for the consumer. 

so your point there is invailad


Just curious... how much research have you read on piracy to come to such a strong concusion?  Or are you just going off the "The earth is flat because we stand on it, anyone who think's it's round is an idiot and truly naive" type of thinking.

Research generally shows the opposite.  Outside of reasearch that comes directly from anti-piracy advocacy groups in anycase.

its simple really: 

Currently there are 3 groups of people when it comes to collecting music, movies, games:

People who pay for everything: the Right thing to do.

People who pay for an illegal copy at lower price: they are likely supporting an underground crimial organisation or pretty theives: this is generally the worst. 

People who download (or phyically recieve copies) for free. 

Now in society number 2 is slowly dying due to the rise of internet piracy, but number 3 is growing at an rapid pace because more and more people are learning the ways and the risk factor is very low since authories are too busy tracking the uploaders then presueing the downloaders. 

The only thing stopping everyone from doing number 3 is the immorals of stealing and the fact that an wide range of society dont know how to do it. 

Now what keeping the entertainment industry running is the 1st group but that is getting smaller and smaller every day as group 3 rises. Now just like any business they need money to produce products which they sell to make more money to produce better and more products. If there is no money then no products can be made, and this is were the priates excuses run dry. Because many have in there head that they are stealing from some billion dollar corporation that grows money on trees, while its true that they are stealing from an billion dollar corporation they dont have an endless supply of money and can go bust very quickly espeically in the entertainment industry (games in predictular). 

But lets take an example: 

Company x makes an game that cost 10 million to make. Company x needs to sell 500,000 copies to break even and pay off there debts. 

now if the priates got there way and allowed everyone to priate that game, the company wouldn't be able to sell 500,000 copies and goes bust, and closes down.  No more games are being made by that company. Soon more and more companies start closing because no one is buying there games are priating them instead. The end results: no games simple. 

Now another case would be that: 

company y makes an game that also costs 10 million and needs 500,000 copies: the game sells 600,000 and is priated 5 million times. now the company made an small profit from the game, now they can make an new game at the same budget and do it again. But if those 5 million bought the game, company y would of made heaps of money. there next game would get an budget of 20 million and has 4 more games in production. 

Now if there was No priacy today we would have proably around 100x more pc games than today and alot of high quality pc exclusives. more games = more choice = more jobs = win for everyone 

So an Priate saying that priating is good or not bad since they are taking from an billion dollar organsiation. But they dont get that they number in the millions and its not one guy stealing from an big organsation its millions of people and that hurts the organisations because thats alot of there cosumer base.

but pirates dont even target the big guys but prey on the small guys that cant afford drm and they get no money and in debt and close down fast. 

the priacy excuse of i cant afford it is wrong: since if you can afford and console or an decent gaming pc you can afford games. if you can afford to pay for that internet connection to download the games you can afford video games.

 

so basically priacy = bad

and the only way priacy can be accepted is you cannot under any circumstances get the game like you can get it posted to your country nor do your retail sells them or the game is so rare and not selling anywhere.  


Except... you know.  All credible research shows your wrong.

I mean, explain why all research done on it even by actual governments show piracy = not a problem.

The truth is you are looking at things from a very simplistic and childish way and ignoring the effects different things have on the markets and why people buy things.

You may as well be saying

"It's clear the earth is flat because we stand on it.  If it were round everything would be rolling around and balls stay still on the ground, so what are you stupid for thinking the world is round?"

or

"It's clear a childs sex depends on how you have sex because etc etc etc. ignore actual scientific research I'm right."

I mean, governments don't exactly have a reason to fabricate this stuff.  There are a LOT of factors including positive ones when it comes to piracy.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090119/1943093458.shtml

http://www.myce.com/news/study-shows-internet-piracy-actually-benefits-anime-sales-39639/

http://musicbusinessresearch.wordpress.com/2010/05/29/gao-report-on-the-economic-impact-of-piracy/

I mean, your free to your opinion, but it's the exact opposite of what is taught... pretty much EVERYWHERE when it comes to economics, so to downplay other people for their so far scientifically backed up... taught in colleges and economics point of view...

It just doesn't make sense.


yes the piracy in certain levels don't harm the industry but sometimes it can almost kill it (PSP and PC say hello). But anyway isn't because research say piracy can be neutral or even positive effect that you can think of yourself of a hero because you pirate. What you do is wrong, breach contract and copyright. At most you can say that you are not 100% destroying the industry.

But anyone that pirate 100% of their games can't say he is helping the industry ¬¬ . Let's accept a guy that pirate high profile games as GT5 or COD and Halo, but buy niche, indie and other less sold games... but usually it's the opposite people buy the blockbusters and pirate smaller games because they think is less worth (proportional, I know COD is much more pirated than a game like Flower), so they have a power to destroy small companies.

Bring all the excuses you want piracy won't suddenly become good and companies will support it nor the government.

(the you in this case isn't exactly you, but someone that piracy and argument that he is helping the industry).


Piracy killing the PC?  People who actually know something about PC gaming say hello.  PC gaming is by far the healthiest gaming platform around.  While tons of cosnole studios are going out of buisenss... all of the PC guys are doing great.  The difference is really, PC represents a stable and better infrastructure and buisness practice. 

As for the PSP... ever think that instead of artificially decreasing PSP software sales, piracy actually artificially INCREASED PSP sales because a lot of people who would of never bought PSP games bought PSPS.

I mean, I know tons of people with PSPs who don't even play PSP games on the system.  They hack em and use em as portable SNES/Sega Gensesis consoles.

Which, unless those PSPs were sold at a loss... again is helping the industry.   Some people who pirate 100% are hurting the industry sure, but that's a very small amount in comparison to most pirates who seem to be of the "I pirate some stuff and buy other" variety... and even then of the 100% pirate... most of them appear to be of the "couldn't afford it anyway" group.  In which case, nothing is being hurt really, and if anything it's maintaining that interest until they one day do have money.

It's why Microsoft's buisness policy with their PC software is "Don't pirate, but if you do, pirate us!" If you pirate MLB the Show for 3-4 years, when you get out of college and get a job, chances are you are going to buy a PS3 and also.... MLB the Show.

There are very very few "willing pirates."  That is people who just want stuff for free no matter what.  To people who are like that, well yeah, fuck em.  However, that's not really the vast majority of pirates, nor likely even the vast majority of people in this thread or anywhere.



Slimebeast on 19 February 2011

Why are they even warning these hackers before they ban them? Just ban them immediately. This is not fair to us honest users.

Im going to start hacking too if Sony doesn't become tougher against hackers.



Slimebeast on 19 February 2011
Kasz216 said:

 

Which, unless those PSPs were sold at a loss... again is helping the industry.   Some people who pirate 100% are hurting the industry sure, but that's a very small amount in comparison to most pirates who seem to be of the "I pirate some stuff and buy other" variety... and even then of the 100% pirate... most of them appear to be of the "couldn't afford it anyway" group.  In which case, nothing is being hurt really, and if anything it's maintaining that interest until they one day do have money.

What about all those millions and millions of people who pirate games, MP3s and movies just to spend their money on other things?

Typical example being the PC gamer who never buys a PC game but spends all that money on hardware instead (I am that guy).

Status quo for world economy perhaps, but it's money taken away from game developers.



Kasz216 on 19 February 2011
Slimebeast said:
Kasz216 said:

 

Which, unless those PSPs were sold at a loss... again is helping the industry.   Some people who pirate 100% are hurting the industry sure, but that's a very small amount in comparison to most pirates who seem to be of the "I pirate some stuff and buy other" variety... and even then of the 100% pirate... most of them appear to be of the "couldn't afford it anyway" group.  In which case, nothing is being hurt really, and if anything it's maintaining that interest until they one day do have money.

What about all those millions and millions of people who pirate games, MP3s and movies just to spend their money on other things?

Typical example being the PC gamer who never buys a PC game but spends all that money on hardware instead (I am that guy).

Status quo for world economy perhaps, but it's money taken away from game developers.

You are in the vast minority and generally outweighed by pirates who aren't dicks. (No offense).

The money they lose by you is generally proven to be offset by other positive effects of piracy and other pirates... and in some cases more then offset.