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Forums - Nintendo - The Last Story--Its performance and its future

LordTheNightKnight on 10 February 2011
jacks81x said:

Yes, factors make something happen.  And a big factor is the userbase.  You are more likely to purchase a game if you own the console already.  Releasing a game on the 360 in Japan is a risky proposition because even if the game appeals to a lot of people, a significant portion of that crowd will not purchase the game because they don't own a 360.    So having a small user base is certainly a negative factor.  Conversely, with a large userbase like the Wii has, you won't have as many scenarios like the aforementioned where fans whom the game appeals to don't end up buying the game because they don't own the console.


"likely" also means "potential", not actual. I repeat, if a game has only so much appeal, a larger userbase cannot change that.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

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themanwithnoname on 10 February 2011
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:

Yes, factors make something happen.  And a big factor is the userbase.  You are more likely to purchase a game if you own the console already.  Releasing a game on the 360 in Japan is a risky proposition because even if the game appeals to a lot of people, a significant portion of that crowd will not purchase the game because they don't own a 360.    So having a small user base is certainly a negative factor.  Conversely, with a large userbase like the Wii has, you won't have as many scenarios like the aforementioned where fans whom the game appeals to don't end up buying the game because they don't own the console.


"likely" also means "potential", not actual. I repeat, if a game has only so much appeal, a larger userbase cannot change that.

So you're saying we shouldn't expect it to do better numbers because it's on the Wii? Please tell me you're joking.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

Christian973 on 10 February 2011
jacks81x said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:
Darth Tigris said:
jacks81x said:
Darth Tigris said:

See!  It wasn't the 360's fault.  Blue Dragon opened bigger than this.  Japanese gamers don't want new IP's.  Why is so much focus put on them???

 

Because every studio wants to create that next great money-making franchise.  It's not that Japanese gamers don't want new IP's.  It's that Japanese developers haven't come out with any truly great new IP's lately.  Remember, all great game  franchises started out as new IP's at one point in time.  Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Monster Hunter, etc were all new IPs once.  So obviously it's not accurate that Japanese gamers don't like new IP's.  

I just edited my statement to be more clear.  I was referring to why put so much focus on Japanese consumers, not new IP's.  New IP's are the future and lifeblood of the industry.

Sales trends show that Japanese gamers as a whole are driven by nostalgia for classic franchises far more than new IP's.  How many RPG's really sell other than DQ or FF?

Again, DQ and FF started out as new IP's once.  So why did Japanese gamers enjoy the very first game of those franchises when they were neither classic nor had the nostalgia factor?  Perhaps the really question is, why hasn't Japanese developers been able to develop mega-successful new RPG IP's like DQ1 and FF1?  


They weren't mega hits right off the bat. They had to establish themselves.

They're not mega hits like they are today (there were no such thing as marketing for video games back in the day).  So there was no hype or preexisting expectations for them.  Also, game sales back in the day were not ridiculously front-loaded like they are today.  Both DQ1 and FF1 sold very well and consistently for pretty much the whole first year of their release, primarily because they were in many ways pioneers in the genre and they were pretty damn good games as well.  You can tell whether a new IP will take off as a franchise by the legs of its sales.  Generally, for a new IP to establish itself, it relies very much on word of mouth and recommendations from friends.    

Sorry but Nintendo were behind the success of DQ and FF. They heavily promoted those games in Japan and overseas though FF 1 sold merely 400,000 copies while DQ 1 sold 2.2 million copies. FF had to fight to establish itself, DQ not so much in Japan.That was before where console wars didn't exist in the NES era. Everyone enjoyed great games without the loyalty and bickering. Now, everything is divided and for something to establish, it's VERY hard.



3DS Friend Code:   4596-9822-6909

Christian973 on 10 February 2011
Soriku said:
Christian973 said:

Considering these JRPGS sales on the wii i wonder how Dragon Quest X will do. By now it must have been cancelled and moved to the 3DS. TLS on 3DS would have been a massive hit as a launch title but some decisions Nintendo makes baffle me sometimes.


lol, the Wii has no problem selling big games similar to DQ. I don't know why they would possibly port DQ X which they already said isn't far out to the 3DS which has 0 units sold. How TLS is comparable to DQ X is beyond me...

Anyway, TLS sales in JP suck but that's why they need to bring it over - it'll definitely sell better in the US, like LO.

Right, but do you really expect DQX to sell the number of units DQIX, or VIII sold on the Wii? Hopefully i'm wrong and DQX does save the Wii in Japan.



3DS Friend Code:   4596-9822-6909

LordTheNightKnight on 10 February 2011
themanwithnoname said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:

Yes, factors make something happen.  And a big factor is the userbase.  You are more likely to purchase a game if you own the console already.  Releasing a game on the 360 in Japan is a risky proposition because even if the game appeals to a lot of people, a significant portion of that crowd will not purchase the game because they don't own a 360.    So having a small user base is certainly a negative factor.  Conversely, with a large userbase like the Wii has, you won't have as many scenarios like the aforementioned where fans whom the game appeals to don't end up buying the game because they don't own the console.


"likely" also means "potential", not actual. I repeat, if a game has only so much appeal, a larger userbase cannot change that.

So you're saying we shouldn't expect it to do better numbers because it's on the Wii? Please tell me you're joking.


Why should it? Have you looked at sales of similar games across systems throughout console generations?

If it did, then multiplatform games last generation should always have sold more on the PS2, by at least 2:1, if not 4:1 in the last few years, and that was never the case. Many did sell better, but not all, and not those ratios.

Now userbase can cause a roughtly equivalent numbers in total software, but no single game.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network
themanwithnoname on 10 February 2011
LordTheNightKnight said:
themanwithnoname said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:

Yes, factors make something happen.  And a big factor is the userbase.  You are more likely to purchase a game if you own the console already.  Releasing a game on the 360 in Japan is a risky proposition because even if the game appeals to a lot of people, a significant portion of that crowd will not purchase the game because they don't own a 360.    So having a small user base is certainly a negative factor.  Conversely, with a large userbase like the Wii has, you won't have as many scenarios like the aforementioned where fans whom the game appeals to don't end up buying the game because they don't own the console.


"likely" also means "potential", not actual. I repeat, if a game has only so much appeal, a larger userbase cannot change that.

So you're saying we shouldn't expect it to do better numbers because it's on the Wii? Please tell me you're joking.


Why should it? Have you looked at sales of similar games across systems throughout console generations?

If it did, then multiplatform games last generation should always have sold more on the PS2, by at least 2:1, if not 4:1 in the last few years, and that was never the case. Many did sell better, but not all, and not those ratios.

Now userbase can cause a roughtly equivalent numbers in total software, but no single game.


What's the Wii-360 ratio in Japan now, like 10:1? I'm not expecting it to sell 10 times better than Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey, but you don't think it's disappointing in the slightest that The Last Story hasn't sold at least marginally better than either of those? I'm really finding it hard to believe that of the however many people with 360s in Japan, the amount of people this game appeals to is roughly the same as it is on the Wii.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

jacks81x on 10 February 2011
Christian973 said:
jacks81x said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:
Darth Tigris said:
jacks81x said:
Darth Tigris said:

See!  It wasn't the 360's fault.  Blue Dragon opened bigger than this.  Japanese gamers don't want new IP's.  Why is so much focus put on them???

 

Because every studio wants to create that next great money-making franchise.  It's not that Japanese gamers don't want new IP's.  It's that Japanese developers haven't come out with any truly great new IP's lately.  Remember, all great game  franchises started out as new IP's at one point in time.  Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Monster Hunter, etc were all new IPs once.  So obviously it's not accurate that Japanese gamers don't like new IP's.  

I just edited my statement to be more clear.  I was referring to why put so much focus on Japanese consumers, not new IP's.  New IP's are the future and lifeblood of the industry.

Sales trends show that Japanese gamers as a whole are driven by nostalgia for classic franchises far more than new IP's.  How many RPG's really sell other than DQ or FF?

Again, DQ and FF started out as new IP's once.  So why did Japanese gamers enjoy the very first game of those franchises when they were neither classic nor had the nostalgia factor?  Perhaps the really question is, why hasn't Japanese developers been able to develop mega-successful new RPG IP's like DQ1 and FF1?  


They weren't mega hits right off the bat. They had to establish themselves.

They're not mega hits like they are today (there were no such thing as marketing for video games back in the day).  So there was no hype or preexisting expectations for them.  Also, game sales back in the day were not ridiculously front-loaded like they are today.  Both DQ1 and FF1 sold very well and consistently for pretty much the whole first year of their release, primarily because they were in many ways pioneers in the genre and they were pretty damn good games as well.  You can tell whether a new IP will take off as a franchise by the legs of its sales.  Generally, for a new IP to establish itself, it relies very much on word of mouth and recommendations from friends.    

Sorry but Nintendo were behind the success of DQ and FF. They heavily promoted those games in Japan and overseas though FF 1 sold merely 400,000 copies while DQ 1 sold 2.2 million copies. FF had to fight to establish itself, DQ not so much in Japan.That was before where console wars didn't exist in the NES era. Everyone enjoyed great games without the loyalty and bickering. Now, everything is divided and for something to establish, it's VERY hard.


I was only 10 at the time, so maybe my memory is a little hazy, but I don't remember Nintendo doing that much to promote FF1 in Japan (I don't know about in America).  Afterall, the game was a new IP from an unkown company that was going bankrupt.  Not exactly something to invest hefty marketing costs into.  Also, I watched quite a bit of TV at that age, and I can't remember seeing one commercial on FF1.  Also, it only sold 400K copies because that's all that was made.  They were initially only going to ship 200K copies, but Sakaguchi convinced them to double that.

 

http://www.develop-online.net/news/28960/Sakaguchi-discusses-the-development-of-Final-Fantasy



LordTheNightKnight on 10 February 2011
themanwithnoname said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
themanwithnoname said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jacks81x said:

Yes, factors make something happen.  And a big factor is the userbase.  You are more likely to purchase a game if you own the console already.  Releasing a game on the 360 in Japan is a risky proposition because even if the game appeals to a lot of people, a significant portion of that crowd will not purchase the game because they don't own a 360.    So having a small user base is certainly a negative factor.  Conversely, with a large userbase like the Wii has, you won't have as many scenarios like the aforementioned where fans whom the game appeals to don't end up buying the game because they don't own the console.


"likely" also means "potential", not actual. I repeat, if a game has only so much appeal, a larger userbase cannot change that.

So you're saying we shouldn't expect it to do better numbers because it's on the Wii? Please tell me you're joking.


Why should it? Have you looked at sales of similar games across systems throughout console generations?

If it did, then multiplatform games last generation should always have sold more on the PS2, by at least 2:1, if not 4:1 in the last few years, and that was never the case. Many did sell better, but not all, and not those ratios.

Now userbase can cause a roughtly equivalent numbers in total software, but no single game.


What's the Wii-360 ratio in Japan now, like 10:1? I'm not expecting it to sell 10 times better than Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey, but you don't think it's disappointing in the slightest that The Last Story hasn't sold at least marginally better than either of those? I'm really finding it hard to believe that of the however many people with 360s in Japan, the amount of people this game appeals to is roughly the same as it is on the Wii.


Well it seems hard to believe, but it's not impossible.

Also, I'm not denying it's dissapointing, but however the game was touted, I could also see it wasn't going to be mainstream there.

But I'll see how the legs go (it's still just two weeks), and keep my fingers crossed.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Linkasf on 10 February 2011

I suggest a port to 3DS at this point. Handhelds are what sell the most in japan now...



LordTheNightKnight on 10 February 2011
Linkasf said:

I suggest a port to 3DS at this point. Handhelds are what sell the most in japan now...


Depends on the ROM size. The cards are 2GB, which is impressive, but TLS might be way too big for that. Otherwise I agree that the market for them is better on those in Japan.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs