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Forums - General - Life for a 13 year old: Cruel & Unusual Punishment or Justice?

 

Life for a 13 year old: Cruel & Unusual Punishment or Justice?

Stand Trial as an Adult 40 78.43%
 
Stand Trial as a Juvenile 10 19.61%
 
Total:50
Mr Khan said:
sapphi_snake said:
Mr Khan said:
 

In a way that is very well inadmissable, yes

Does that change the fact that he confessed? Why do you want a criminal to get off due to technicalities?


Not necessarily, but the law must be followed, and due process must be afforded, which no-one seems to be thinking about in this case.

Sorry, I don't wanna see dangerous criminals walk free. I don't think anyone here wants that.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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Kasz216 said:

I feel like there should be a "half-way" option.

It's crazy to me that sometimes it's usually a difference between like 2-7 years and 60 .

This. 




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sapphi_snake said:
Mr Khan said:
sapphi_snake said:
Mr Khan said:
sapphi_snake said:
Mr Khan said:

Another point that you all might not be aware of (remember this case is local news to me) is that when our county judge declared that he should be tried as an adult, he claimed it was because "He showed no remorse for what he did?"

Now who can tell me what basic principle of criminal justice was violated in that statement, given that this kid is a suspect only? Our county judge screwed up, and state court absolutely will overturn that decision because the judge based it on assumptions that are illegal to make, so its a non-issue

Great. Another monster will be loose on the streets.

We all labor under the assumption that he did it. Hell, the state's weakening themselves by fighting so hard, as the years tick by, it'll be harder to convict him as peoples' memories get shoddy

Innocent Until Proven Guilty must be remembered, first and foremost, or do you not have a similar rule in Romania?

Didn't he confess to doing it?

In a way that is very well inadmissable, yes

Does that change the fact that he confessed? Why do you want a criminal to get off due to technicalities?

Because unless the police, our judges, and our lawyers can follow the proper procedure to convict a criminal and assure their guilt, the entire system is pointless. We may as well just start taking people out back and shooting them in the head without a trial.




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Psychologically, we understand right from wrong around the age of 7. This kid knew what he was doing. Unless of course, he's crazy. In that case, he should be institutionalized anyway.



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sapphi_snake said:
Chairman-Mao said:

I agree with Toastboy. Kid should get the capital punishment. If he's this fucked up at 13 then he's not getting any better. Not even 25 years in prison being raped every night will fix this kid. 

FTR, I doubt that that would "fix" anyone. Quite the opposite actually.


Haha well it "fixed" Peter Schibetta on Oz after he was raped by Adebisi and Schillinger



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NotStan said:
Rath said:

1) I want to be the person who stands against the execution of a minor for the sake of vengeance. Justice is not killing for vengeance people with diminished responsibility.

2) There is little to no proof that capital punishment works any better as a deterent than prison.

3) He is a minor, it's a legal term. You're trying to take it away from the legal and into the emotional with 'little monster'. A little monster he may be, but the justice system can't see it that way.

4) His release, as I believe should be the case with all murderers, should be dependent on a psychological report. If he's a psychopath who is a significant risk to the society then he shouldn't be released. But you can't accurately predict how a 40 year old will be based on what he did as an eleven year old.

5) It doesn't matter whether you'd 'take the risk'. It's the entire 'For the greater good' concept all over again. I hate utilitarianism, it has no humanity.

1) Minor or not, he was old enough to know the consequences of his actions as he went as far as to get rid of the shotgun gauge, 11 may be a little young for execution but the crime which he has committed is one of the most severe, especially taking into account that he had effectively killed a relative, as she was his step mother.

2) There is no proof, but it saves having to spend such large amount of taxpayers money on what will likely be a lost cause going by the way the crime has been committed. If there was a chance that he was not innocent in this case I'd agree, but the evidence is all lined up on him and he also likely confessed to it by now too.

3) I am not trying to do, I am just saying that whichever type of person reviews his crime will likely think of him as a sick little bastard as it is. It is after all down to people that the court cases are settled not by some random chance machine that weighs in the crime vs the evidence.

4) I agree on that point, not quite as severe as a capital punishment but a reasonable solution to the problem, however if he is tried as a child he will get out at 21, a 10 year sentence for double homicide, psychological trauma for the family, and hell knows how much damage. 

5) I tell you what has no humanity, a child that has taken the shotgun as soon as his father left and executed a mother with almost fully developed child, leaving the mess for his little sister to find.

1) It does not change the law that he committed a severe crime.

2) Death penalty is the opposite of cheap. Due to the extremely extensive series of appeals in general it costs more than life imprisonment in the USA.

4) I never made comment on what I considered an acceptable prison term for the kid.

5) As I said justice isn't based on vengeance. Otherwise the entire system would be fucked.



NotStan said:
dsister said:

I don't think he should be executed. 5 years in juvi then another 25 in a real prison... That would more or less ruin his chances of having a quality life anyways.

Higher chance of him going on another rampage, this time involving a higher spectrum of victims. Maybe adding a priest to that list, a nurse, oh let's also throw in some kids into the mix.

He has effectively signed his death warrant with this murder, question is whether it's social or literal. If he is in prison unless he is released with a new identity and a clean record(Another fucked up case unless he does change) then he is doomed. Having a dead pregnant mother on your record isn't the best of employee material.

That's not acceptable. People need to know who he is. What if he goes on a rampage? People have a right to know in order to avoid him.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Can I volunteer to throw the switch on this kid?



rocketpig said:

Because unless the police, our judges, and our lawyers can follow the proper procedure to convict a criminal and assure their guilt, the entire system is pointless. We may as well just start taking people out back and shooting them in the head without a trial.

And because of that you want this dangerous criminal to walk the streets? Hope he moves next door to you in that case.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Chairman-Mao said:
sapphi_snake said:
Chairman-Mao said:

I agree with Toastboy. Kid should get the capital punishment. If he's this fucked up at 13 then he's not getting any better. Not even 25 years in prison being raped every night will fix this kid. 

FTR, I doubt that that would "fix" anyone. Quite the opposite actually.


Haha well it "fixed" Peter Schibetta on Oz after he was raped by Adebisi and Schillinger

You're using a fictive TV show as an example. Really?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)