Fisher ain't got shit on Snake.

In all seriousness though, we're talking about a custom engine vs. an Unreal Engine 2.5 game.

This comparison is pointless.  MGS4 is a fantastic game (I'm actually playing it right now) but there are several elementas of the games graphics that show their age (VERY poor environmental detail and subpar textures in general).

And of course there would be smoother performance in an engine made specifically for a system as opposed to an engine that was re-tooled for a system.

Anyway, stupid comparison.  Both games are fantastic.  Splinter Cell: Conviction overall to me has better graphics but MGS4 gets the edge for better game overall.  

The biggest news in this thread is the Unreal Engine 2.5 looks amazing. I just assumed all the games on HD consoles were using the Unreal Engine 3.

On console you're not going to see that much of difference from what I can tell - the HW is the same and the new engine can only optimize and enhance certain features in line with the existing hardware.

It's on PC an engine change is more significant as it may be using new features available on newer video cards hence allowing for completely new stuff vs just making existing stuff better.

From an HD console perspective, the evidence so far is that V 3.0 will bring some nice enhancements but you're not talking the complete step change that tends to be expected on PC platform - i.e. Gears 3 and Mass Effect 3 are going to look better but not a generational leap better.

As for games using 3.0 I'm not sure which will hit first.  Gears 3 and Mass Effect 3 will use it, and ME2 on PS3 is apparently running on it but with assets, etc. from ME2 but outside of that I'm not sure what other titles will show it.  The new Batman probably and perhaps some other imminent Unreal based titles.

Maybe that's the reason they used Unreal 2, it's an old engine and they're familiar with it.  And with only the PC and 360 in mind for development they could have taken more advantage of the 360's hardware.  And looking at how good Splinter Cell looks, they probably had to rework the code a lot.  So I stand by my statements; Splinter Cell's engine is a custom one.

The unreal engine was at version 3 since the start of the gen, and as far as I know unreal engine 2 hasn't been ported to the 360 or PS3.  Unless you mean a 3rd update to unreal 3.

There are a few games out there this gen that used Unreal Engine 2 and it's modified versions (such as Bioshock and both Splinter Cells) but most games using the Unreal Engine this gen have used version 3. Bioshock Infinity is still Unreal Engine 2.5 and it looks amazing. The fantastic looking Brink uses a heavily modified ID Tech 4 game engine. And that engine powered the not so impressive Wolfenstein. Really is down to programming talent, budget, vision, creativity and artwork. Bulletstorm and Gears of War 3 use the latest varient of Unreal Engine 3 and look stunning.

DIdn't realize Bioshock was running a modified Unreal 2 engine, I always thought it was running Unreal 3.  But the point I was trying to make before hand is that Splinter Cell is using Unreal 2 yes, but I'm sure they customized the hell out of it and pretty much made it their own.

Every Unreal based game mods the engine.  Generally speaking in the industry a custom engine has to be built from scratch and propriatary rather than based on an existing codebase.  So technically it's not a custom engine.  MGS4 is a custom engine, the engines under Halo Reach and Forza are custom, the engine under GT5 is custom...  but SC no.  No Unreal engine based title is generally considered a custom engine.

You can view it your own way of course - but that's not how it's generally viewed in the industry.

SC uses a modified Unreal engine.  MGS4 uses a custom proprietary engine - i.e. built from scratch just for MGS4.

these guys are really pulling at straws, compare the same game yes, but completely different games on different engines on different consoles, it just doesnt make sense imo