until we get further info.

What kind of info are you talking about? There are no name/roleclaims in this game. Bandwagons on suspects are meant to apply pressure and get the suspect to respond directly to questions by threat of lynch. "getting further info" sounds like a hollow reason tbh.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3821816

This is not the post where I explain this discrepancy. This is your post in response to the post I made to explain this discrepancy. So you are so intent on attacking me you are not even paying attention to posts you have already responded to. Either you have some vendetta against me leading you to disregard old posts which makes your new posts against me entirely irrelevant, or you are going out of your way to find false ways to attack me. Which is it?

1) The actual reason why I found this suspicious was 2-fold. The fact that you came to the same conclusion, but also, the exact list of people you used. My own list of people to off on day 1 would be much much smaller, first of all, and consist of the players who I'd think are most dangerous.

Linkz or Heph. Linkz, I'm scared of, I hope when he's mafia it will be easy to tell. Heph is just a scary player.

Secondly, I'm wondering why you didn't include linkz, yourself, or vette, or others.

To extrapolate, you said:

"He mentions two times that we shouldn't look at Heph's posts because he was probably killed because he's a good player. That may have been the main reason why he was killed but it's not like the town is lacking in good, experienced players.

So given the choice to kill Final-Fan, hatmoza, zexen, Hephaestos, theprof00 or nordlead, the Mafia chose Heph. It's possible that there is a reason why he was the unlucky winner of this death lottery other than his record in previous games."

What I see here is a list of good, experienced players. You leave many off that list; your reasoning is lost to me.

The reasoning that I can INFER however, is that you are mafia and that list is all townies. I remember when I was mafia, I also made similar lists so that when I died, people would see my flip result, and then re-read my posts and stumble upon the names of players I was buddying with leading to a strong chance of mislynch.

Anyways, it is completely conjecture. Gniz would call this "twisting your words", but it is an ASSUMPTION. IF you are mafia, then the post says one thing, and if you are town, the post says another. This linked post of yours is not strong evidence in the slightest, I admit. It simply jumps out at me.

2) You did pop up. You were the first post after his post, and your last post had been many hours previously. Perhaps you were just skimming, or hadn't seen anything worth replying to, or perhaps it was sheer coincidence. Again, it jumps out at me.

3) No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that he may have inadvertently come off as such, causing instant response from people lurking.

What is so hard about saying:

I wasn't feeling well before night 1, admittedly, I can see how it might appear scummy in that respect, but I was feeling much better at the start of day 2.

To address the post you are calling an attack on the "discrepancy", here is a quote by FF:

Normally in English language, the use of the idiom "to Y, let's say that X" is used to explain a situation with a substituted hypothetical reason that should be held with enough respect as to request no further questioning, with Y being the motive to use the hypothetical excuse.

It's like, say my house burned down, and I ended up 10 minutes late for a class I was supposed to teach. I might say "to prevent any further distraction, let's say that I was very busy this morning".

I never commented on FF's post above, because frankly I'm just tired of your vagaries. It's hard enough that you don't specify your examples with evidence ("not saying much"), but your explanations are indirect, and your posts (at least the one with "let's say") are sometimes easily misinterpreted.

Additionally, Gnizmo, what you call "twisting your words" is simply "taking an assumption".

As in, ASSUMING you are mafia, you responded to Sivler-Tiger in defense of someone who is mafia in that list.

Now, before you object by saying something like I am slanting my view of the situation, or, I'm altering examples to suit my own view in some self-fulfilling prophecy, I will tell you this.

I do this with every single person, and it is an easily forgettable and retrainable thought process.

It is like looking at a maze on paper. To solve even the most difficult of mazes, pick a direction and hug the wall, when you run into a dead-end, you realize that that direction was not the correct one. So too do I look at you and choose a direction (read: alignment), I follow everything you say with that direction in mind and follow it until I find the dead-end.

However, it isn't a matter of simply assuming you're one thing. If I do that, then I am ignoring other potential solutions. No, I have to look at you in three different paths: Mafia, townie, power role. I re-read the thread several times, and take pokes and prods into little nooks of the maze to see if I can rule them out immediately.

I know this example may have been a little academic, I feel that making assumptions and seeing how they pan out is an important process of discovering motives, solutions, and relationships.

There are other ways to play, I know, but this is the one that I find "most fun".

1) No I wouldn't, but I'm not trying to make any points with my potals either. It may cause someone to examine a player that I have as not bringing any contributions to the thread. However, I'd never do something like "Vote: X, See Potals. I suggest everyone follow suit."

2) I would think that a consistently non-sketchy playstyle would serve just as well to keep scum guessing as to whether you are a vanilla townie or a power role. Is it because players with suspicions on them generally live longer and this allows you to gather more info regardless of role?

3) That doesn't change my opinion of your alignment one bit, though it does make me like you more as a player actually. Two rounds ago,(MINHA) I had figured out at least half of the townies(as a townie myself of course) before all of the modkills. Even afterwards, I was confident enough in who was pro-town that had I taken lead(if it was given of course) of town it would've been an easy victory without even relying on power roles. So I tried to plant the seed of doubt into townies to give scum a chance, and while I wouldn't have voted to lynch anyone I knew was town I wasn't going to help scumhunt anymore either. If the mafia that round had realized this and gone after someone else instead of me the second night, it would've been a much closer game and more fun imo, but enough about the past.

As to the rest of your post, you've eliminated the qualms I was having about what seemed to be your behavior. I'm still wary of you over some things, but at least I know rational "attacks" will be defended against.

@scottie: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3829559
Scum also want to cause a lynch, especially if it's a mislynch. Additionally, scum may want to change their vote, as a vote that isn't helping go towards a lynch can be seen as distancing which is also suspicious.

I'm not going to tell you what to do with your vote, as I actually want to see what you decide for yourself. It's time though for many players to either push for a lynch of who they're on or get on board someone else.

@nen: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3830039
Wow. Really, wow. I've been waiting a while for you to return with something to say, and all I can think is your post is a mess.

You state you're less suspicious of scottie because he's avoided voting you and voted for the player you're on instead. Even if you are a townie, that could easily be scum buddying up to you and trying to keep a suspicious player alive while still getting on a mislynch/a scummate that seems unlikely to actually be lynched. Only if ST turns scum should you be less suspicious, and even then not by much. This actually raises my suspicions of you and scottie.

As for SAK, I will be brutally honest. If there is going to be a mislynch, I would without a doubt prefer it to be a lazy/bad townie than an active/good one. I already stated my suspicions(though admittedly it isn't much, then again I don't think there is much on anyone right now) beyond the not paying attention and the payoff should he flip scum. It is unlikely I will unvote SAK unless he has a very good defense or someone else messes up bigtime(see GOW's gambit last round) and needs to be lynched.

@prof: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3830202
I count nen's post as content actually as I see it as a relationship between himself and scottie. Like you said, it's an opinion.

It was Stefl and I brought that up here. I am wary of you, but whatever your alignment at least I know my suspicions are sound. I can decide on j0's alignment based on his responses or flips of related players, and so it only has to do with you should you be lynched and flip scum.

And I don't really think the statement itself was suspicious, several people are announcing they'll be gone for Christmas. The alternative is just being absent(like MetalGear, just first on the list of players though there are more) and I assume they will just use the holiday as an excuse as well. It's one of those damned if you do/damned if you don't scenarios.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3830236

Until now you've been very careful about being unsure of my alignment. "Linkz, I'm scared of, I hope when he's mafia it will be easy to tell." seems to hint that you know I am townie this round and hope in the future I will have a tell.

I have another comment about this post, but Truck should answer for it first.

Finally, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume someone is mafia and see what relations would result from that assumption. On the other hand, you seem to assume exactly what mafia would do a bit too much. By that I mean either you are in fact mafia and stating what is actually going on, you are mafia and painting a false picture to confuse everyone, or you're simply a townie and assuming that mafia would do exactly what you would do if you were mafia. To use the example of a scum Gnizmo responding to ST's list, he could easily be making it seem like he's defending one or more scummates, thus in the event of a lynch hopefully confusing town into scrutinizing three townies and leaving the actual scummates safely in the shadows. It may be this kind of thinking that makes me "dangerous" in your eyes, but I don't put it past anyone else to behave this way.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Almost forgot
@prof:
You do know that by naming me with Heph you may have very well set me up for the NK and thus making you even more suspicious to everyone? After my defense of you being "framed" for Heph's death, I wouldn't put it past you to carry it even further if you're mafia. Nor would I put it past mafia to use that exact reasoning to actually frame you if you're a townie.

Of course my mentioning it could make me suspicious if I'm still alive come day three, but darn it I want to see a day three!

Oh linkz, have you been drinking again? :P

1) Honestly, that post is just so wishy-washy that I cannot discern any relationship at all. It could be sheer laziness or just noise. But I agree that it is opinion based. The problem I see with that post is that even if he flips mafia or town, I don't feel like that post is going to be useful. Perhaps that is an intrinsic component of my decision making that I didn't know to explain?

2) Yes, I know that but I forgot who it was. Your phrasing leads me to believe that you thought I was just reiterating your point in some manipulative gambit, but I can assure you that I had thought of it first.

Also, you should be wary of me. There's no evidence proving that I'm town. That's redundant. OTOH, I do trust you a great deal.

3) Except other players are doing their damndest to contribute. Someone mentioned they'd be gone for 12 hours, hopefully able to post the 12 hours after that, and then make a post or 2 definitely after that.

Only two people mentioned being gone (well only one that I've seen. The other I'm inferring from what another player said) for extended periods of time, dtewi and trucks. Trucks said he was leaving for what, 4 days? And dtewi is gone for god knows how long. I just don't see how someone can not post for 4 days, no matter the issue.

4) If I were Gniz, I'd tell you to stop twisting my words.

Anyhow, let me ask you something. What would you have thought if you had read that post and were also mafia?

5) Did I call you dangerous?

Anyway, maybe you heard this word back in MINHA: "yomi"; Reverse psychology, in a way. You are simply talking about yomi 2. I consider all yomi when I play. So if that makes you dangerous, then I am as well.

Enough about yomi, though...nobody seems like enjoy my strategic waxing on and on.

...about Gnizmo 'defending players'.
A) I've considered this possibility
B) What do you then think of his reaction? To me, the saying "me thinks thou dost protest too much" comes to mind.

Now let me ask you another question. Do keep it to yourself when you think an enemy is trying to outwit you?

I think the best and safest thing Scottie could have done is vote me, you get away with alot of thing on ur first

game especially a bandwagon vote because the players don't know how you play.

He could even use my death as an excuse to go after ST tomorrow so unless he is the crazy/unpredictable

kind of player I'm having hard time seeing him as mafia.

As for SAK while i agree with you it really annoy me that i know we are most likely lynching a townie

Unvote:

Vote: SAK