Ugh

Damn these long posts!

As I said earlier in the game, we don't have enough information to make anything but observations. I don't like making observations, because they're founded without proper evidence, and there is normally a lot of meta-game theories involved, which I personally don't believe work, because every Mafia game is different and each player would respond differently to a situation. This is why I've been keeping fairly quiet during these early stages of the game - I'd hate for this to turn into my "no-lynch" situation last game, but I'm just going to mention that I play like this often, and the reason that I was posting a lot in the last game in the first couple of days was because I had so much suspicion piled on me that it'd be suicide to not answer every statement and question that was aimed at me. Obviously, I'll be willing to do that in this situation too. 

what am I inventing?

Why do you hate voting and unvoting?

Actually, given that gow was an extra player anyway, and that adding another mafia for his extra spot would be unbalanced, gow was a free lynch. Following that up with the distribution of townie to scum, having an odd number of townies is the best time to lynch on day 1.

(this is interesting seeing as how you went out and said that the number of scum had no impact on decisions. Here it most certainly does)

No lynch was not the only available option. There were only 3 votes for no lynch. It hardly had any significance.

Tell me what facts I am ignoring, please.

And you shouldn't believe for a minute that another mafia and I would team up to take down one townie when it would implicate both of us.

If you truly, honestly believe you are being persecuted by mafia, then it is probably ST...but I also don't like that trucks is on STs ass.

I don't know STs alignment, and I take what he says with a grain of salt. I am only looking at your own play.

What do you consider to be proper evidence?

What more can we have except observations. That is how you vote and lynch. You look at stuff and make a decision.

Meta game theories exist because they work. The top two, the two that work a majority of the time is the lurkers lynch and liars lynch.

damn these useless posts!

1- Yes you needed to defend from the observations made by dtewi about your change of heart on Day One.

2 - I'll have to check back the thread tonight to see how much nen-suer brought to the discussion.

3 - Let me explain my last sentence: You seem to be making all "townie" moves but without any commitment behind them. You say you wanted a Day One lynch but never voted for anyone. Then you voted for No Lynch as the bandwagon was going.

4- I wasn't actually defending nen-suer more than I was attacking you for voting for someone because you didn't like their No Lynch justification.

I'm also requestin that someone make a POTALS list.

A POTALS list is a list of every post summarized under 4 categories. This is easily done witha  pen and paper but requires some analysis on your part. Save the posts that stand out and make a decision based on what you think their alignment is. Obviously, you cannot do this for everyone since some people have barely posted, but it's good to have some kind of idea where people stand contribution-wise.

I will be making my own and comparing it. Tonight I may be away from a computer so I might not be able to post for another 24 hours or so.

The 4 categories are as follows:

contributions/non-contributions/mistakes/possible slips

feel free to leave out introductory posts as well.

total these up and make a small graph like this

Name - C - NC - M - PS

Truck - 1- 2 -0- 0
Hatmoza 12 - 4 -1 - 1

In the case of a possible slip, save the post and include it at the end.

At the conclusion, find the highest ratios of contribution/total posts, NC/total posts etc and find the top among those people.

Like I said, I am working on one myself, but it's hard to find time seeing as how I'm at my gf's family's house and don't want to appear rude to them.

thank you.

Gut feelings is not an evidance....i mean how can you defend yourself against that ?!

Facts, Lies, unusual behavior and contradictions if you cant base your finding on at least one of these then

what you got is not a "proper evidence".

(1)prime bandwagon span is this. It starts at the fourth vote (because that is a prime bandwagon spot...this is where a bandwagon really starts to pick up momentum) and ends at the tipping point vote (which is the vote that almost seals the rest of the votes coming in).

You are in that area along with ST, Radish, and zexen. Considering a no lynch, these are the spots that are most meant to "appear" pro-town. Yours was the only one that really acknowledged that it was too risky to try another lynch. Other players had different reasons. Yours simply stands out.

(2) so you don't like it because it makes you look like you're toying, or because you *feel* like you're toying? In any case, why would you be so worried about that? This makes me think that you don't want to draw suspicion to yourself.

Additionally, there are two mods to count votes. Voting and unvoting should not be a problem for them.

(3) Don't really understand what you mean here. There are 21 players. There were originally 20. It wouldn't make sense for the mods to add another scum simply based on an extra player being added. There are 3 townies to every scum, it would be completely imbalanced. So, even though GoW was modkilled, it doesn't affect anything. Before GoW was modkilled, we were at a very very good standing to survive a mislynch, thereby giving additional reason to lynch on day 1. After GoW died, the chances weren't that much worse. In an entirely equal 3-1 ratio, town can afford to lynch on day 1. If they don't, the interaction between mafia kills and lynches means that the game ends when mafia kills at night rather than when town mislynches the final day. In either scenario, town misses out on an extra lynch. If you don't understand, read my "mafia rules and hosting" thread for a more detailed explanation of how the numbers work out.

(4) Right. It isn't significant. One of the townies was an extra player who doesn't factor in to odds at all, and the other is a normal day 1 lynch where town has the best chances to lynch without impairment.

(5) I do? Please show me where I make you look like that. I find it hard to believe that that was a fact I was ignoring. More likely, it is you simply demonizing me with the argument that 'I always play like this'.

(6) If you mean that I am unpredictable, then you are correct in that. There's nothing I can really say against that reasoning, but I'm glad you brought it up.

(7) Your play consists of your argument that the number of players to scum is insignificant, your voting pattern, and your "safe" play. These are all tells in my opinion.