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Forums - General - Swiss government is considering legalizing sex between family members

weird, i am swiss, but this completely passed me. btw. it doesn't mean anything if the "government is considering something" in switzerland, we have direct democracy so the last word will always have the people.

anyway, even though it's kinda strange, i think it'd be ok, the state shouldn't care about what happens in your own 4 walls as long as everything is consentual or criminal in some other aspect.



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Legally, there's no reason to forbid any two consenting adults from having sex, and I wonder how such a law was created in the first place.

However, I also have to wonder what is suddenly prompting the repeal of such a law.  One would think it'd be almost incosequential in its effects on the general populace.  Did some politician suddenly get a hankering to screw a family member or something?



its kinda weird ¬.¬ but its there choice i suppose ^^



Yeah i know my spelling sucks but im dysgraphic so live with it :3    

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Don't like it, but couldn't care less if its between consenting adults. Don't be surprised if the kids have an extra finger or two though. The taboo exists for a reason and the practice will still be frowned upon.



The consenting part is the problem.

main argument often against incest is not the reproduction part but that in a family with a social order, sex will never be fully consenting (except with the wife), as one can put pressure on the other.



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ramses01 said:
Reasonable said:

Morally I couldn't care less - genetically it's bad news so I'd actually object on those grounds: bad for the species.


It is not necessarily bad news genetically either.  That would depend on the genetic fitness of adults in question.  For highly fit adults, genetics would actually favor such a union over a randomly selected mate.

Nope, that's not correct.  If you start inbreeding with two perfect specimens then all seems fine at first, but if inbreeding continues (the issue is multi-generational inbreeding) then the end result is always negative.  Genetically, for complex animals you need an intermingling gene pool.  Too much in-breeding and you're going to see problems.

The odds are probably low, but the problem with incest is that if it were to continue over a number of generations - i.e. the son of a brother/sister with his sister and so on -  it will negatively impact future generations.

Incest tends to be instinctively frowned on for a reason - and the other issue I see is that it is very probable children of known incest (and the couples) would be discriminated against and receive abuse.  Not that this alone is a reason to avoid it, but it needs to be bourne in mind.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Reasonable said:
Kasz216 said:
Reasonable said:

Morally I couldn't care less - genetically it's bad news so I'd actually object on those grounds: bad for the species.


Doesn't it take like... dozens of generations of inbreeding to show effects?

The only real issue is genetic diseases becuase your basically guranteeing it will strike

Yeah but so what?  It's still going to happen.  It's not like people will say "well, we'll just have a couple of generations of incest then stop'.  The risk will be there.  Also, a lot of evolution theory indicates that changes can be pretty quick.  Certainly if we're talking people with genetic diseases you're going to see very quick effects, as you say.

Note I'm not talking about sex that's protected but reproduction.  You're basically increasing the odds per generation of weaker, more disease prone children.  I know I wouldn't feel too happy if I was a tenth generation incest child with a lot of physical issues.

It's just not a good idea from any genetic perspective.

Why not, if your extended family or whatever has *good* genes, lacking any particular recessive traits, though that veers dangerously close to the old arguments for eugenics (which then bound into racism, state racism, holocaust, etc etc)

Does it veer anymore near eugentics then banning incest because of fear of inferior genes? 

Plus it's a lopsided law since it ignores the fact that there are a lot of people with negative recessive genes who marry each other that doesn't qualify as incest.

The real "logical" version of a law that prevents incest on genetic means would be...

"Before reporoducing (or I guess having sex in general) you must be tested for genetic diseases, and if you have these you can not have sex with anyone else who has one of those recessive genes."


Would such a law be benefical to the human race?  I could see it being so, but it's awfully damn restrictive.

You see it happen all the time with non-related families, people who keep having kids they know are gentically likely to have mental disorders.  You can't just tell them to NOT have kids.  Then again, you may be for such a thing, what with the afore mentioned authortarian liberal stance and in such a thing does cost the state. (Much like the healthcare arguement for the personal mandate.)


This kind of law wouldn't pass in any democratic country because of violation of your rights.... altough you would have the option to do it yourself if you are smart enough to care.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
rocketpig said:
sapphi_snake said:

Hmm, is 2 cousins having sex considered incest? (Catholics can marry their first cousins, right?)

Mostly, no, it's not considered incest. In some places in the US it's illegal but marrying a first cousin is legal in almost all of Europe. I'm  not sure what the Catholic church's stance is on the subject, though.

Aha, anyways, incest should be legal between consenting adults. And so should adultery (it's illegal in my country).

I can see why adultery would be illegal.  You signed a contract to be faithful to your wife.  Now I wouldn't give adultery any penalty outside of divorce court but I can see the use for it having an "illegal" status.

In Romania you have civil marriage and religious/whatever marriage. Civil marriage is the only type of marriage that matters, and the contract is standard, with no sexual fidelity clause.

Also, adultery is irrelevant in the case of divorce also, as in Romania when 2 people divorce they get what they had when they went into the marriage. Only goods that were brought together are shared, and you have to prove that you contributed financially to their purchase.

A wife/husband can ask for alimony only if she/he suffers from a condition that does not enable them to get a job (and in some cases they can only recive alimony for just 1 year after the divorce is final).

We don't even have prenuptial agreements here, because we don't need them.


Well... that's just messed up.  No offense.

I mean say my girlfriend and I were married, when we both graduated college only one of us was going to be able to go to graduate school for it to work, so she went to graduate school and I've just picked up various jobs I can find to get us through the bills.

If we were to get divorced after she graduated and bought a bunch of stuff, I can't prove I financially helped pay for stuff, but she'd of never gone through college without me.  Furthermore I gave up a definite high paying careerpath to let her go to college so it'd work for her finanically since she cares more about what she does then I do.  (Had connections through a proffessor that would of probably ensured me a very high paying job.)

To not consider the effect the marriage has one the partner is crazy.


I mean, what about people who COULD of gotten education or another job, but stay home because they want to be good parents?  It just seems like an insentive against good parenting.


They didn't said financial contribution... support is considered contribution also... and in most place even with divorce generating wealth division, usually the man complain that he did all of that alone while the partner just staied at home.

And if you both choose one path it's your choice and you must stand by it... no one obligated you to marry or work for the other education... so you can't complain after that you sacrificed yourself for someone and now were throw away.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Doobie_wop said:
Chairman-Mao said:
Doobie_wop said:

I sometimes wish I had a really hot sister.


That's the grossest thing I've ever read

Is it? I don't know, I think it'd be pretty damn cool if my life turned into one big hentai fiasco. My talking dog would try and talk me out of my insecurities, I'd get to drive a mech to work every day, I'd randomly unleash powers I never knew I had, I'd always be stuck at the innocent age of 15 and I'd have a super model older sister to sex me up orally. That sounds like a pretty cool life, don't be jealous.


Seen really interesting life... altough i preffer myself today than with 15 years.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

c03n3nj0 said:
hatmoza said:

My thoughts? Only absolute weirdos would have sex with family members.


This. :/ 

Ditto