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kevin the wiiite on 11 December 2010

I have a big problem with one thing people are saying - "The bible is full of fictional stories."  Explain to me the thin layer of oil found throughout the entire middle east without their being a catastrophic flood to destroy and cover up that much forested area..  Explain Josephus' writings on the destruction of the Jews by Nero.  Explain the Egyptian record which tells a similar story of an enslaved people being let go by Pharaoh.  Explain the remains of the city of Jericho that was sacked by the Jews in the bible. (The walls being blown down by trumpet blasts even has its basis in science with natural frequency!)  Explain why 4 people would write entirely different accounts of the life of Jesus without having actually seen it. You can choose whether or not to believe in God, but the bible is as historical as any other ancient writing.  (a nice parallel is the recent discovery of the city of Troy proving the historical basis of the Iliad and the Odyssey)

Carbon 14 is absolutely useless as a dating technique because nobody knows how much carbon 14 you start with in ancient bone, or how much dissolves into the system while the bone turns to rock.  It's much better proven that human bones don't even last 2,000 years in most cases because of all the roman tombs found with only dust where there was once a body.  The oldest of bones preserved by ice where bacteria are rarely around to decompose anything are found to be about 10,000 years old.

And what person would put themselves up against this evidence? One who doesn't want to submit to a higher power.  It's ironic, the Democrats, who generally are less theistic, (Not to put all democrats in one box) don't want to submit to a higher power, and yet constantly increase the size of government.

Oh - and you can put me in the box with the other Protestant Christians here.  I don't play GTA IV and don't swear on Halo like a five year old who just learned some new four letter words.



I'm not a fanboy, I just don't enjoy dual analog control.  It's d-pad or wii-mote for me.

the conduit has changed the way wii play games.

I know.  I'm sick of the puns too.

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Homer_Simpson on 11 December 2010

im an Atheist religion for the lose!



Bokal on 11 December 2010

Proud atheist here.



They will know Helgan belongs to Helghasts

Rath on 11 December 2010
kevin the wiiite said:

I have a big problem with one thing people are saying - "The bible is full of fictional stories."  Explain to me the thin layer of oil found throughout the entire middle east without their being a catastrophic flood to destroy and cover up that much forested area.. 

That much oil cannot be explained by a single layer of forest being destroyed in a single event. It requires many many cycles of biomass growing and dying at a rate beyond the ability for it to decompose. The formation of petroleum happens on a geological time scale and certainly has not occured on a 'biblical' scale.

Explain Josephus' writings on the destruction of the Jews by Nero.

Never heard of this one, link me to something that explains it please?

Explain the Egyptian record which tells a similar story of an enslaved people being let go by Pharaoh. 

While I don't know of this record, nobody is arguing that the bible is void of historical events. Possibly the Pharaoh did let enslaved people go, it doesn't mean there is a supernatural diety that caused it.

Explain the remains of the city of Jericho that was sacked by the Jews in the bible. (The walls being blown down by trumpet blasts even has its basis in science with natural frequency!)

...

While natural frequency is real there is no way to use trumpets to blow down a wall with it.  Also Jericho was almost certainly abandoned at the point in time when the conquest was supposed to have happened.

  Explain why 4 people would write entirely different accounts of the life of Jesus without having actually seen it.

Four people who had no contact with each other and no access to the others writings right?

You can choose whether or not to believe in God, but the bible is as historical as any other ancient writing.  (a nice parallel is the recent discovery of the city of Troy proving the historical basis of the Iliad and the Odyssey)

That's a hilariously accurate parallel. While the Iliad and the Odyssey are broadly based around a historical event (the war with Troy) the vast majority of the book is fiction, with stories of the Greek gods and of heroes who never existed.

Carbon 14 is absolutely useless as a dating technique because nobody knows how much carbon 14 you start with in ancient bone, or how much dissolves into the system while the bone turns to rock.  It's much better proven that human bones don't even last 2,000 years in most cases because of all the roman tombs found with only dust where there was once a body.  The oldest of bones preserved by ice where bacteria are rarely around to decompose anything are found to be about 10,000 years old.

They found plenty of human bones at say Pompeii

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH8-4HHP5B4-1&_user=10&_coverDate=04/30/2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1575801940&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7e5eb0b8d991fa5f53f72588832a763a&searchtype=a

And what person would put themselves up against this evidence? One who doesn't want to submit to a higher power.  It's ironic, the Democrats, who generally are less theistic, (Not to put all democrats in one box) don't want to submit to a higher power, and yet constantly increase the size of government.

Oh - and you can put me in the box with the other Protestant Christians here.  I don't play GTA IV and don't swear on Halo like a five year old who just learned some new four letter words.

I realise you aren't going to care about any of this post, but anyway.

 

Also could somebody give a biblical explanation for how we can see light from stars that are millions of lightyears away?



Wagram on 11 December 2010

I believe in a god, god(s) or higher beings. We didn't get here from nowhere.

However I don't consider myself relgious nor do I believe in any of the gods based off of the books. They could be falsified from the government for all we know.



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GameOver22 on 11 December 2010
Rath said:
kevin the wiiite said:

I have a big problem with one thing people are saying - "The bible is full of fictional stories."  Explain to me the thin layer of oil found throughout the entire middle east without their being a catastrophic flood to destroy and cover up that much forested area.. 

That much oil cannot be explained by a single layer of forest being destroyed in a single event. It requires many many cycles of biomass growing and dying at a rate beyond the ability for it to decompose. The formation of petroleum happens on a geological time scale and certainly has not occured on a 'biblical' scale.

Explain Josephus' writings on the destruction of the Jews by Nero.

Never heard of this one, link me to something that explains it please?

Explain the Egyptian record which tells a similar story of an enslaved people being let go by Pharaoh. 

While I don't know of this record, nobody is arguing that the bible is void of historical events. Possibly the Pharaoh did let enslaved people go, it doesn't mean there is a supernatural diety that caused it.

Explain the remains of the city of Jericho that was sacked by the Jews in the bible. (The walls being blown down by trumpet blasts even has its basis in science with natural frequency!)

...

While natural frequency is real there is no way to use trumpets to blow down a wall with it.  Also Jericho was almost certainly abandoned at the point in time when the conquest was supposed to have happened.

  Explain why 4 people would write entirely different accounts of the life of Jesus without having actually seen it.

Four people who had no contact with each other and no access to the others writings right?

You can choose whether or not to believe in God, but the bible is as historical as any other ancient writing.  (a nice parallel is the recent discovery of the city of Troy proving the historical basis of the Iliad and the Odyssey)

That's a hilariously accurate parallel. While the Iliad and the Odyssey are broadly based around a historical event (the war with Troy) the vast majority of the book is fiction, with stories of the Greek gods and of heroes who never existed.

Carbon 14 is absolutely useless as a dating technique because nobody knows how much carbon 14 you start with in ancient bone, or how much dissolves into the system while the bone turns to rock.  It's much better proven that human bones don't even last 2,000 years in most cases because of all the roman tombs found with only dust where there was once a body.  The oldest of bones preserved by ice where bacteria are rarely around to decompose anything are found to be about 10,000 years old.

They found plenty of human bones at say Pompeii

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH8-4HHP5B4-1&_user=10&_coverDate=04/30/2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1575801940&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7e5eb0b8d991fa5f53f72588832a763a&searchtype=a

And what person would put themselves up against this evidence? One who doesn't want to submit to a higher power.  It's ironic, the Democrats, who generally are less theistic, (Not to put all democrats in one box) don't want to submit to a higher power, and yet constantly increase the size of government.

Oh - and you can put me in the box with the other Protestant Christians here.  I don't play GTA IV and don't swear on Halo like a five year old who just learned some new four letter words.

I realise you aren't going to care about any of this post, but anyway.

 

Also could somebody give a biblical explanation for how we can see light from stars that are millions of lightyears away?


What do you mean by biblical explanation? Most people are not going to claim that the Bible provides a complete account of the universe. You are not going to discover calculus or the law of gravitation by reading the Bible. In the same way, the Bible does not need to explain the mechanism by which we view distant stars. The Bible is compatible with science, provided a strict interpretation is not used, so scientific explanations suffice for explaining the natural world and do not necessarily conflict with the Bible.

The main point is that the Bible does not need to explain how we see light from distant stars. It doesn't need to tell us the speed of light, the structure of the universe, the formation of stars, etc. because we have science which is much better equipped to do this. When asking someone to provide a biblical explanation for how we see stars, you're asking them to do something they do not proclaim the Bible is capable of doing.

Note: I am using the principle of charity here. While there might be some people who claim the Bible can provide these answers, I do not think they are the best representation of Christianity.



kevin the wiiite on 11 December 2010

Link to Wikipedia article on josephus' writings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiquities_of_the_Jews

The problem you're pointing out is that we don't know if God didn't put a lot of things on earth to tempt us not to believe in him.  For instance, He very well may have put a ton of million year old fossils on the earth when he created it and put all of the light waves in place for all the stars so that as far as we know they are that old.



I'm not a fanboy, I just don't enjoy dual analog control.  It's d-pad or wii-mote for me.

the conduit has changed the way wii play games.

I know.  I'm sick of the puns too.

alekth on 11 December 2010

I'm an atheist, anti-theist, apatheist and whatever else can be crammed into the range.

It won't change even if the existance of a creature of a higher power (who maybe even created something) is proven. This creature would need to step forth and state that it gives a toss, has some rules for us, expects some worship etc. Maybe also care to get rid of some other religions that don't fit the rules.

Then again if such a creature existed and cared, it's surely taking its time. Not holding my breath.



Rath on 11 December 2010
GameOver22 said:
Rath said:
kevin the wiiite said:

I have a big problem with one thing people are saying - "The bible is full of fictional stories."  Explain to me the thin layer of oil found throughout the entire middle east without their being a catastrophic flood to destroy and cover up that much forested area.. 

That much oil cannot be explained by a single layer of forest being destroyed in a single event. It requires many many cycles of biomass growing and dying at a rate beyond the ability for it to decompose. The formation of petroleum happens on a geological time scale and certainly has not occured on a 'biblical' scale.

Explain Josephus' writings on the destruction of the Jews by Nero.

Never heard of this one, link me to something that explains it please?

Explain the Egyptian record which tells a similar story of an enslaved people being let go by Pharaoh. 

While I don't know of this record, nobody is arguing that the bible is void of historical events. Possibly the Pharaoh did let enslaved people go, it doesn't mean there is a supernatural diety that caused it.

Explain the remains of the city of Jericho that was sacked by the Jews in the bible. (The walls being blown down by trumpet blasts even has its basis in science with natural frequency!)

...

While natural frequency is real there is no way to use trumpets to blow down a wall with it.  Also Jericho was almost certainly abandoned at the point in time when the conquest was supposed to have happened.

  Explain why 4 people would write entirely different accounts of the life of Jesus without having actually seen it.

Four people who had no contact with each other and no access to the others writings right?

You can choose whether or not to believe in God, but the bible is as historical as any other ancient writing.  (a nice parallel is the recent discovery of the city of Troy proving the historical basis of the Iliad and the Odyssey)

That's a hilariously accurate parallel. While the Iliad and the Odyssey are broadly based around a historical event (the war with Troy) the vast majority of the book is fiction, with stories of the Greek gods and of heroes who never existed.

Carbon 14 is absolutely useless as a dating technique because nobody knows how much carbon 14 you start with in ancient bone, or how much dissolves into the system while the bone turns to rock.  It's much better proven that human bones don't even last 2,000 years in most cases because of all the roman tombs found with only dust where there was once a body.  The oldest of bones preserved by ice where bacteria are rarely around to decompose anything are found to be about 10,000 years old.

They found plenty of human bones at say Pompeii

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WH8-4HHP5B4-1&_user=10&_coverDate=04/30/2006&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1575801940&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=7e5eb0b8d991fa5f53f72588832a763a&searchtype=a

And what person would put themselves up against this evidence? One who doesn't want to submit to a higher power.  It's ironic, the Democrats, who generally are less theistic, (Not to put all democrats in one box) don't want to submit to a higher power, and yet constantly increase the size of government.

Oh - and you can put me in the box with the other Protestant Christians here.  I don't play GTA IV and don't swear on Halo like a five year old who just learned some new four letter words.

I realise you aren't going to care about any of this post, but anyway.

 

Also could somebody give a biblical explanation for how we can see light from stars that are millions of lightyears away?


What do you mean by biblical explanation? Most people are not going to claim that the Bible provides a complete account of the universe. You are not going to discover calculus or the law of gravitation by reading the Bible. In the same way, the Bible does not need to explain the mechanism by which we view distant stars. The Bible is compatible with science, provided a strict interpretation is not used, so scientific explanations suffice for explaining the natural world and do not necessarily conflict with the Bible.

The main point is that the Bible does not need to explain how we see light from distant stars. It doesn't need to tell us the speed of light, the structure of the universe, the formation of stars, etc. because we have science which is much better equipped to do this. When asking someone to provide a biblical explanation for how we see stars, you're asking them to do something they do not proclaim the Bible is capable of doing.

Note: I am using the principle of charity here. While there might be some people who claim the Bible can provide these answers, I do not think they are the best representation of Christianity.

By biblical explanation I mean an explanation consistent with the literal young earth interpretation of the bible.

You're right that I used the wrong term, I should have said creationist explanation. Because as you say by taking a non-literal view of the bible it becomes much more compatible with science.



Neoraf on 11 December 2010

Me.
Atheist all the way.

We are animals. Small creatures created by randomness.
DARWIN FTW!

 



     

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