By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Atheits ... How Many On VGChartz ?

FaRmLaNd said:

Very few atheists make a positive claim that God doesn't exist. Functionally everyone in the world is an agnostic since they're without knowledge. That includes theists.

I however don't define myself by the fact that I can't positively prove that God doesn't exist completely and cannot know either way. Thats absurd. Firslty because no-one applies such thinking to things like fairies, which seems to be a form of special pleading only really applied in the theistic realm, and secondly because I think theistic claims can be looked into. God strikes houses with lightning because we sin? Nah, its a natural process that can largely be predicted, doesn't require God to work (gotta love a bit of razor action) and even if God was doing it, it can be easily stopped with lighting rods (what a weak God, why worship it?).

The claim God exists is made by theists. There is no evidence, thus I don't believe in it. I have no burden of proof because my belief is a negative. There is nothing illogical about being an atheist. To be correct, I would say I'm an agnostic atheist as is pretty much everyone. But the same would thus have to be said about thiests aswell. Ever heard a person call themselves an agnostic Christian? I doubt it (of course this being the internet I'm sure groups exist).

I just fall on the side of the fence that thinks that God probably doesn't eixst. And if we must look at the evidence, the God of the Gaps is an ever shrinking one. There is certainly more evidnece to say that God doesn't exist then does (or atleast if a God does exist, he's decidenly non interventionest and probably non-anthropic). But again, I'm not making the claim, I'm just rejecting the claim by theists because such an extraordinary claim should have extraordinary evidence.

I'm interested in what a person thinks, not some obsession over knowledge (which is rarely applied anywhere else) or the use of the word to reduce social stigma (and such agnostics do exist).

And please, don't conflate anti-theism with atheism.


Oh my, are you serious or is this sarcasm (bold part)?

Im really not sure...



Fedor Emelianenko - Greatest Fighter and most humble man to ever walk the earth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVVrNOQtlzY

Around the Network
trunkswd said:

I live in the US and there is suppose to be seperation of church and state, but that wall seems like it is being torn down more every day.

Ugh, this is one of my biggest gripes also. I'm an atheist, and I hate how the law is telling me what I can and can't do because of a religious belief in it. And it's the things like this that have made me more and more against religion in general.

On a personal level, logically, it makes no sense for there to be a god; I can't believe one exists. And, while there is no proof that one exists, all that states that one doesn't exist is all in theory, and also not provable... yet. So, unless you start going after me, be it in an argument or telling me what I can do because of religion, I'll respect someone else's view. But I also will expect respect of my own.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

ProdigyBam said:
FaRmLaNd said:

Very few atheists make a positive claim that God doesn't exist. Functionally everyone in the world is an agnostic since they're without knowledge. That includes theists.

I however don't define myself by the fact that I can't positively prove that God doesn't exist completely and cannot know either way. Thats absurd. Firslty because no-one applies such thinking to things like fairies, which seems to be a form of special pleading only really applied in the theistic realm, and secondly because I think theistic claims can be looked into. God strikes houses with lightning because we sin? Nah, its a natural process that can largely be predicted, doesn't require God to work (gotta love a bit of razor action) and even if God was doing it, it can be easily stopped with lighting rods (what a weak God, why worship it?).

The claim God exists is made by theists. There is no evidence, thus I don't believe in it. I have no burden of proof because my belief is a negative. There is nothing illogical about being an atheist. To be correct, I would say I'm an agnostic atheist as is pretty much everyone. But the same would thus have to be said about thiests aswell. Ever heard a person call themselves an agnostic Christian? I doubt it (of course this being the internet I'm sure groups exist).

I just fall on the side of the fence that thinks that God probably doesn't eixst. And if we must look at the evidence, the God of the Gaps is an ever shrinking one. There is certainly more evidnece to say that God doesn't exist then does (or atleast if a God does exist, he's decidenly non interventionest and probably non-anthropic). But again, I'm not making the claim, I'm just rejecting the claim by theists because such an extraordinary claim should have extraordinary evidence.

I'm interested in what a person thinks, not some obsession over knowledge (which is rarely applied anywhere else) or the use of the word to reduce social stigma (and such agnostics do exist).

And please, don't conflate anti-theism with atheism.


Oh my, are you serious or is this sarcasm (bold part)?

Im really not sure...

Why wouldn't I be serious? If a process is natural and doesn't require god to work and can be prevented from doing any damage, then its highly doubtful that God is involved at all.

EDIT and that claim use to be made all the time. I'm not saying it disproves god, its just an example of a theistic claim that can basically be disproven or at least investigated and doubt cast over it, which is part of my rejection of the notion that theistic claims cannot be investigated. The weak God part was a joke, I must admit.



I am Athiest/Agnostic. I dont believe in a God but am open to be proven wrong.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

ManusJustus said:
Raze said:

I don't believe in athiests. =P

 

In high school and college, a LOT of my friends were athiests, hardcore ones at. You know, the type that not only don't believe in any form of god, but also insist on verbally attacking anyone who DOES believe.

Anyway, after they had their first kid, they "found God". Its very easy to be young (teens, twenties) and claim athiesm. I generally dismiss that as a phase. Hit your 30s, raise a family and STILL be athiest, then I'll credit you as being athiest. =)

Atheists are the most persecuted group of people in the world.  When you are young, it is a lot easier to be a 'rebel' and not mindlessly go with the social convention.  But when you start a career and family you don't want to risk being the outcast.

I have a career and am starting family now.  I still don't believe in silly superstitions, but I no longer feel comfortable telling co-workers and risking promotions or telling potential parents of my children's friends and risk my children being alientated that I am an atheist.

I can get on the internet and freely vent about how stupid religion is, but at work and other functions I listen to people's stupid convictions with a smile on my face.


Makes sense, but Im not so much referring to that, but people who in their youth claimed athiesm, then went on to have families, and now go to church and all that fun stuff. Like you said, its easy to be rebelious and outspoken in your youth, but how many stick to their convictions as they age? THOSE are the true athiests.  The ones that have been through it all. A lot of these kids who claim athiesm, they'll change when they age, I've seen it all before. 

As for myself, I'm a Christian, in the sense that I follow the concept and principles of the death and ressurection of Christ, but I am very outside of the box beyond that. I don't like to associate with "Christians" as a group, because their way of thinking is somewhat terrifying.



The Carnival of Shadows - Folk Punk from Asbury Park, New Jersey

http://www.thecarnivalofshadows.com 


Around the Network

Agnostic. I'm not an antitheist though and believe in freedom of religion.



Demon's Souls Official Thread  | Currently playing: Left 4 Dead 2, LittleBigPlanet 2, Magicka

Raze said:
ManusJustus said:
Raze said:

I don't believe in athiests. =P

 

In high school and college, a LOT of my friends were athiests, hardcore ones at. You know, the type that not only don't believe in any form of god, but also insist on verbally attacking anyone who DOES believe.

Anyway, after they had their first kid, they "found God". Its very easy to be young (teens, twenties) and claim athiesm. I generally dismiss that as a phase. Hit your 30s, raise a family and STILL be athiest, then I'll credit you as being athiest. =)

Atheists are the most persecuted group of people in the world.  When you are young, it is a lot easier to be a 'rebel' and not mindlessly go with the social convention.  But when you start a career and family you don't want to risk being the outcast.

I have a career and am starting family now.  I still don't believe in silly superstitions, but I no longer feel comfortable telling co-workers and risking promotions or telling potential parents of my children's friends and risk my children being alientated that I am an atheist.

I can get on the internet and freely vent about how stupid religion is, but at work and other functions I listen to people's stupid convictions with a smile on my face.


Makes sense, but Im not so much referring to that, but people who in their youth claimed athiesm, then went on to have families, and now go to church and all that fun stuff. Like you said, its easy to be rebelious and outspoken in your youth, but how many stick to their convictions as they age? THOSE are the true athiests.  The ones that have been through it all. A lot of these kids who claim athiesm, they'll change when they age, I've seen it all before. 

As for myself, I'm a Christian, in the sense that I follow the concept and principles of the death and ressurection of Christ, but I am very outside of the box beyond that. I don't like to associate with "Christians" as a group, because their way of thinking is somewhat terrifying.

Unfortunately, I've been to church recently myself.  I do it for family members (parents and grandparents who go to the same church), but I'm usually reading parts of the Bible that I find to be interesting or playing with  my iPhone.  Though that is coming to an end when I move out of town.

There are a lot more atheists out there than you think, even some of the people you go to church with.



GameOver22 said:
chocoloco said:
GameOver22 said:
chocoloco said:
GameOver22 said:
chocoloco said:
HappySqurriel said:
Bobbuffalo said:
leatherhat said:

Atheists are people that bust religious peoples balls over believing in God when there is no proof, completely forgetting that there is no proof God doesn't exist as well.

That's not atheism. Atheism is simply that you won't believe blindly in something unless there are proofs. If there are proofs that God exists then I'll accept it because there's a proof of it.

But so far there isn't and no religion has proved it yet.

That stance is more in line with being agnostic ...

Agnostics (like myself) generally respect other people's religious views but don't believe there is significant evidence to support the view that god exists.

I truly think there is little difference between an atheist and an agnostic. They both are skeptical and non-religous.  And an atheist can respect the good that religion has done even if they believe that no one true religion is possible.

They are distinctly different groups though. Skepticism maintains we cannot have knowledge, and atheists argue we can know that God does not exist. Agnostics are more in line with skepticism because they maintain we cannot assess the truth of religious claims. Atheists are obviously going to disagree because they claim we can know that God does not exist.

That would be true if there was some absolute definition of an atheist which there is not. For an atheist to say there is an absolute definition of the word is the same absolutism that most religions project.     For me, all it takes to be an atheist is to deny the exsitance of a god/goddess/creator it never requires someone to say that they can prove the nonexistence. Maybe it does from a philisophical stance, but in general to be an Atheist really just believes you don't believe in religion.

I also do not think that all definitions need to be absolute, but you can definitely name the characteristics something needs to have in order to fall into a category. The one obvious characteristic of atheists, at least good ones, is they must claim to have the knowledge that God does not exist. Without this, they just have a belief with no justification, and atheists are not going to want to rely on belief for their argument. The most popular form of argumentation would be arguing that the characteristics of God are incompatible with observations of the universe (eg. Richard Dawkins). Someone could also say we cannot know if God exists, but this is an agnostic and not an atheist.

How does someone deny the existence of something without proof? Without proof, its just an empty statement. There needs to be some form of argumentation. I don't really think this is a question of philosophical v. common meaning. I think most atheists will maintain that belief is not enough to be an atheist. It is necessary, but this belief also needs to be true and justified, and hence, knowledge. Also, atheism is not concerned with religion but God. There can be people who believe in God but are not religious, such as deists, but they are not atheists.

Ok not trying to be a dick, but saying you can not deny something without proof could also mean you can not prove that I am not god. Can you really prove the existence of anything because I don't think the statement "I think therefore, I am," is enough. In philiosophical thinking, you could prove or unprove the existance of anything.   

A deist is a theist as well, so of course the are not an atheist; monotheism and polytheism are equals as religions even if polytheism is not as popular.

Actually I tell people I am an agnostic, but I truly believe that it is just one type of atheism.

I think you are setting to high a standard for knowledge. If I was an atheist, I could not deductively proof the non-existence of God. I have to use inductive arguments or show how the world is incompatible with the notions of God(things like the complexity of the universe v. the simplicty of God's mind or the problem of evil), but these types of arguments still count as proof. I could also proof you are not God in the same way, particularly by showing you lack omniscience, omnipresence, and have a physical body. Point is, you'e overlooking other argument forms and reducing knowledge to certainties. While this is fine if you want to maintain this, you also need to abandon atheism to remain consistent becasue atheists's claims cannot reach certainty.

Also, deism and theism are completely different. The big difference is theism believes in a personal God while deists do not. If you want to use agnostic and atheist interchangeably and include agnosticism as a sub-set of atheism, you can do that, but it doesn't change the fact that the words have different meanings. Using them interchangeably will only result in unneeded confusion.

My good sir I like your response and will answer it when I am sober. Rough day!



Joelcool7 said:
bannedagain said:
Joelcool7 said:
bannedagain said:
Joelcool7 said:
bannedagain said:
Chairman-Mao said:

This thread lasted 6 posts before someone had to go on a religious rant instead of just a yes or no. 



Look at the way they got disgusted because someone wasn't a christain. Christain hand it to us non believers daily.

So I gave a little back and it wasn't a rant it was my thoughts and a little science and logic.

It's a blog!

Umm unless a post got deleted I believe Chairman-Mao was refering to your athiest rant which was six posts into this thread. Couldn't you have just said "I'm athiest rather then attacking the OP for being Christian?

At the OP I'm sorry to say but their are alot of closed minded Athiests on this site. The closed minded Athiests just will not accept that you have a different belief then they do. Don't get me wrong their are a few open minded educated Athiests on VGChartz as well. But you commited Thread suicide when you indicated you were Christian.

I won't get into the debate of whether my faith is scientifically proven or theirs is because it will lead no where when people have decided what they believe. Its impossible to reason with anyone who blindly believes their belief is the only right one.



I have plenty of supporting facts and all point to 99.9 percent right. 

Santa Clause is real too, RIght, stories are great but it doesn't make them true because you had a spiritual experience. 

Maybe people on this site are sick of the way religions treat them? seems to me that I get it shoved in my face watching the f'ing science channel and almost in every event planned by family, some friends, wedding, soliciting my door,  The mall, Politicians,shoting down stem cell research, c'mon, it goes on and on. We just sit there and take it with a smile and don't get bent out of shape about it.  But once we bring up are beliefs after hearing hours of religion talk, it's we are a--holes and what have you. So it's always shame on us for a different belief system. It's called being demonized for having different beliefs.

Religous groups have always done it.

Maybe you are just sensitive and you need to just accept that it's just providing facts. Not bashing you.

This is why I have decided to stay out of debates. Their is no basis of fact that proves you or me right. The only thing that will happen is I will through facts around which you will say are false or based on misconseptions. Then you will through facts back at me which I will either use to support God's existance or again say come from bias. This will continue untill I have about 8 people attacking me and trying to ruin my credability. Before finally I will leave the thread pissed off just to repeate the situation next time.

I could go all into Micro Evolution and how it proves God exists I could start using personal experiances and proofs of miracles etc...etc... But it would just be a waste of time because you and half the other athiests only listen to facts and theories that agree with your own theology. Look at all the prominent scientists that get fired every day just because they decide God exists.

As for you being under attack and you not actually attacking me. Let me put this into perspective for you. You are not being under attack. You say religion is being forced on you, look at it from a Christian's perspective. Without believe in God you go to hell" now if you knew how to save someone from eternally damnation would you not try at every chance you got? If you say no, you'd just let everyone go to hell. Well then your an asshole.

As for me, I go everywhere and I get attacked because I'm Christian. You claim to not be attacking me you say your just stating facts. Why because your insinuating I don't know these facts and are their for uneducated. You treat me as if I can't comprehend reality that I blindly follow my faith. Now how is that not hostile?

You are attacking me and my faith by suggesting facts prove me wrong. Essentially your calling me stupid , ignorant or both.

So will I continue to debate with you? No because its stupid as you won't listen to my facts or my theories. You'll just write them off while using your own theories and facts which I may even agree with some things but your not going to change my belief.

In the end your posts and mine will only lead to further anti-religious sentiments in you and anti-athiest sentiments in me!

So fear and miracle's, OK. GOT you.


Exactly the kind of reasoning that causes me to avoid such topics. Rather then responding maturely you resort to saying I and other religious groups use fear and miracles. Rather then pointing out you have no facts that disprove Gods existance just like I have none that prove it.

Geez this is stupid. You couldn't even reply without trying to make me look like a loony. I don't try to make you look like a nut case for believing were decendants of some 1/3rd complete fossil named lucy or neanderthals that we are less genetically incomon then pigs.

I could go on about how their are hundreds of evolution theories including many false ones even by the great Darwin. I could begin saying how I am an evolutionist I believe in Micro Evolution, Natural Selection and the strongest survive. But you know what you'll just counter with some bull shit trying to prove the big bang theory or some other theory like Macro evolution.

With no scientific facts to back either of us , its pointless. But I bet you'll reply to this yet again and likely take another pot shot at my religious beliefs or try to cliche me up. Another insult like allowing fear to control me. I could start talking about your family issues based on your past post. Then I would be lowering to your level.

But I won't so please don't qoute me or comment on my reply. I don't care to get in another argument with yet another smart ass athiest who think's he's more intelligent then me.

Yea but to say he does is jumping to conclusions.



FaRmLaNd said:

Very few atheists make a positive claim that God doesn't exist. Functionally everyone in the world is an agnostic since they're without knowledge. That includes theists.

I however don't define myself by the fact that I can't positively prove that God doesn't exist completely and cannot know either way. Thats absurd. Firslty because no-one applies such thinking to things like fairies, which seems to be a form of special pleading only really applied in the theistic realm, and secondly because I think theistic claims can be looked into. God strikes houses with lightning because we sin? Nah, its a natural process that can largely be predicted, doesn't require God to work (gotta love a bit of razor action) and even if God was doing it, it can be easily stopped with lighting rods (what a weak God, why worship it?).

The claim God exists is made by theists. There is no evidence, thus I don't believe in it. I have no burden of proof because my belief is a negative. There is nothing illogical about being an atheist. To be correct, I would say I'm an agnostic atheist as is pretty much everyone. But the same would thus have to be said about thiests aswell. Ever heard a person call themselves an agnostic Christian? I doubt it (of course this being the internet I'm sure groups exist).

I just fall on the side of the fence that thinks that God probably doesn't eixst. And if we must look at the evidence, the God of the Gaps is an ever shrinking one. There is certainly more evidnece to say that God doesn't exist then does (or atleast if a God does exist, he's decidenly non interventionest and probably non-anthropic). But again, I'm not making the claim, I'm just rejecting the claim by theists because such an extraordinary claim should have extraordinary evidence.

I'm interested in what a person thinks, not some obsession over knowledge (which is rarely applied anywhere else) or the use of the word to reduce social stigma (and such agnostics do exist).

And please, don't conflate anti-theism with atheism.

Nice post. The only thing I take exception to is your first section. By "positve claim", do you mean 100% certainty? If thats what you mean, you are correct that atheists do not claim to be 100% certain that God does not exist. However, everyone is not an agnostic because they are without knowledge. Knowledge does not need to be 100% certain, and it seems you allude to this in your second section. Point is, when people say, "I know God does not exist", they are not claiming to be 100% certain that God does not exist. Just as an example, scientific laws are considered knowledge, but they are not considered certain knowledge because they rely on induction and inference.