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zexen_lowe on 11 November 2010
leo-j said:

derrick rose is another underrated gem

I don't think you can call a no.1 draft pick, rookie of the year and who got picked to the All-Star in his 2nd year underrated, but I guess that's just me

As for the awards, I think it's gonna be

 

MVP : I'm not too keen on Durant this season, and the Miami guys don't look like one will stand out, so I think there's a chance Rondo can get it. Or maybe Gasol, he's putting awesome numbers lately
Scoring Champion : Monta Ellis
Rookie Of The Year : John Wall (there's no way he's gonna lose that)
Most Improved Player : Kevin Love
Defensive Player Of The Year : Dwight Howard (a given)
Coach Of The Year : Monty Williams




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Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

 

Except, you are suggesting LeBron was mad becuase they didn't get any of those big trades.

Which you know, would of required Hickson.  Who he wanted to keep.

So how are both of those things possible?

 

As for firing Mike Brown.  I disagree... it's happened before with big performances.  2009 was the perfect chance to fire him because he did not adjust his gameplans and had the same dumb subsitution issues.

Hickson was drafted in 2008...they had 4 years of missed opportunities and bad trades before then which Hickson wasn't a part of. Players like Gooden, Szczerbiak, Wallace; a laundry list of average, average players. 

Vs what other options?

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible... and Shanon Brown at the time sucked.

You're also forgetting Joe Smith who was a really good player for the Cavs.

The Cavs got Wallace, Joe Smith, Sczerbiak and Delonte West.

Well worth the expensive bust Hughes was, Gooden and Brown.

Brown being the only one of value... and I'm not even sure he'd of played on the cavs.

Edit:  Actually check that.  Shannon Brown still sucks.  Last year was a career high for him where he averaged 8,2 and 1.



Bladeneo on 11 November 2010
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

 

Except, you are suggesting LeBron was mad becuase they didn't get any of those big trades.

Which you know, would of required Hickson.  Who he wanted to keep.

So how are both of those things possible?

 

As for firing Mike Brown.  I disagree... it's happened before with big performances.  2009 was the perfect chance to fire him because he did not adjust his gameplans and had the same dumb subsitution issues.

Hickson was drafted in 2008...they had 4 years of missed opportunities and bad trades before then which Hickson wasn't a part of. Players like Gooden, Szczerbiak, Wallace; a laundry list of average, average players. 

Vs what other options?

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. - Jason Lee, Mallrats.

http://theaveragejoe.sportsblognet.com/ - Mainly American Football, snippets of Basketball, European Football and Hockey. 

Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

 

Except, you are suggesting LeBron was mad becuase they didn't get any of those big trades.

Which you know, would of required Hickson.  Who he wanted to keep.

So how are both of those things possible?

 

As for firing Mike Brown.  I disagree... it's happened before with big performances.  2009 was the perfect chance to fire him because he did not adjust his gameplans and had the same dumb subsitution issues.

Hickson was drafted in 2008...they had 4 years of missed opportunities and bad trades before then which Hickson wasn't a part of. Players like Gooden, Szczerbiak, Wallace; a laundry list of average, average players. 

Vs what other options?

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.



Bladeneo on 11 November 2010
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

 

Except, you are suggesting LeBron was mad becuase they didn't get any of those big trades.

Which you know, would of required Hickson.  Who he wanted to keep.

So how are both of those things possible?

 

As for firing Mike Brown.  I disagree... it's happened before with big performances.  2009 was the perfect chance to fire him because he did not adjust his gameplans and had the same dumb subsitution issues.

Hickson was drafted in 2008...they had 4 years of missed opportunities and bad trades before then which Hickson wasn't a part of. Players like Gooden, Szczerbiak, Wallace; a laundry list of average, average players. 

Vs what other options?

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. - Jason Lee, Mallrats.

http://theaveragejoe.sportsblognet.com/ - Mainly American Football, snippets of Basketball, European Football and Hockey. 

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Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

 

Except, you are suggesting LeBron was mad becuase they didn't get any of those big trades.

Which you know, would of required Hickson.  Who he wanted to keep.

So how are both of those things possible?

 

As for firing Mike Brown.  I disagree... it's happened before with big performances.  2009 was the perfect chance to fire him because he did not adjust his gameplans and had the same dumb subsitution issues.

Hickson was drafted in 2008...they had 4 years of missed opportunities and bad trades before then which Hickson wasn't a part of. Players like Gooden, Szczerbiak, Wallace; a laundry list of average, average players. 

Vs what other options?

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away



Bladeneo on 11 November 2010
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away


A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived. 

Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it. 



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. - Jason Lee, Mallrats.

http://theaveragejoe.sportsblognet.com/ - Mainly American Football, snippets of Basketball, European Football and Hockey. 

Kasz216 on 11 November 2010
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away


A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived. 

Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it. 

Except for the fact that the trade actually gave the Cavs MORE flexability?

Which they used to get Mo Williams.

Larry Hughes was on the hook for 70 Million over 5 years.

Ben Wallace was on the team for 1.5 years.

Larry Hughes would STILL be on the team making something like 12 million.

1 year of Ben Wallace was worse then 5 of Larry Hughes?



zexen_lowe on 11 November 2010

Celtics beat the Heat again!

Excellent game by Rondo, 16 assists now, I guess around 15 will be the norm for him this season. Allen superb too, though Miami can't leave him THAT open, he's gonna make the three pointers for sure...

I'm really liking Semih Erden, for a 60th pick he's playing very good minutes, maybe he won't be playing much when all our centers are back, but for now he's helping the team quite a bit




Bladeneo on 11 November 2010
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:

The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.

I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006. 

Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center? 

Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.

They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.

They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.

They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.

So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.


Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year.  Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.

You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.

I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy. 

It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace  was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess. 

You do know that was the same trade right?

It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.


I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad. 

No they weren't?  They were both upgrades.  

Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.


Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that. 

Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics. 

You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.

Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away


A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived. 

Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it. 

Except for the fact that the trade actually gave the Cavs MORE flexability?

Which they used to get Mo Williams.

Larry Hughes was on the hook for 70 Million over 5 years.

Ben Wallace was on the team for 1.5 years.

Larry Hughes would STILL be on the team making something like 12 million.

1 year of Ben Wallace was worse then 5 of Larry Hughes?


So the Cavs gained flexibility to turn one awful SG into a mediocre one that LeBron managed to make what, a fourth choice all-star? I'm struggling to figure out where all this bullshit talk about those trades reaches the point where my original comment of 'The Cavs made awful trades' is shown to be false.

Anyway, tonights game proved yet again that the Heat need to make a trade, Anthony and Arroyo are simply not good enough to start. What is it about Miami by the way that makes the Celtics play like it's the NBA Finals?



Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega. - Jason Lee, Mallrats.

http://theaveragejoe.sportsblognet.com/ - Mainly American Football, snippets of Basketball, European Football and Hockey.