Bladeneo said:
Kasz216 said:
Bladeneo said:
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The fact is the Cavs gave up draft picks left right and centre to acquire subpar players and didn't expect it to come back and bite them. Are you telling me other teams didn't make big moves during those seasons? Ray Allen (and glen davis) went to the Celtics for Szczerbiak, West and Jeff Greene! I think we remember where two of those players have played, Pau Gasol was traded for what amounted to a snickers and about $12 in change.
I even forgot about Larry Hughes; the Cavs had nothing to trade with because they took awful, AWFUL contracts and were so strapped for cash even with Lebron earning 5 million a year in 2006.
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Except... they didn't give up draft picks left right and center?
Larry Hughes they signed as a free agent.
They got Wallace and Sczerbiak in a trade that involved NO draftpicks.
They got Gooden in a deal that netted Varejao AND 2 draft picks.
They traded away a total of 3 picks in 7 years... but also traded for a pick.
So, they traded a way a total of 2 draft picks.
Getting good players in steals has little to do with "wanting" them and more with having the right number of expiring contracts at the right year. Which by the way the Celtics had when they got ray allen.
You may be a fan of the game, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the salary cap/trade portion of it.
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I'd call not having a first round pick in 2005 or 2007, and trading away Shannon Brown who was drafted in 2008, pretty disappointing draft policy.
It's irrelevant what you think I know about the salary cap or trading, that has absolutely nothing to do with me being able to recognize trading away Gooden, Hughes and Shannon Brown (now a key piece off the Lakers bench) for an aging, ineffective Ben Wallace was a bad choice. I can't disagree with the Szczerbiak trade that much because Delonte West was worth Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble. But whatever, you can just go back to insulting my intelligence I guess.
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You do know that was the same trade right?
It was a 3 way trade... and Gooden and Hughes were horrible.
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I realise that, yes, but I was evaluating the two separate sections to the deal. West is the only good thing from that trade, so it was terrible. Hughes and Gooden were horrible yes, but Wallace and Szczerbiak were just as bad.
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No they weren't? They were both upgrades.
Also Joe Smith was very solid... and neither trade would of happened without the other.
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Upgrades? They certainly didn't play like upgrades, Szczerbiak certainly upgraded the Cavs wide open 3 point misses I guess. Smith was solid I agree, but nothing more than that.
Although, to comment on your edit before, I wouldn't say Shannon Brown sucks - Phil Jackson certainly doesn't think so. there's more to a player than his statistics.
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You don't usually go around badmouthing players on your team as a coach.
Joe Smith and Delonte alone was worth the entire group they traded away
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A coach with balls who is respected knows when to criticize his players; Mike Brown allowed apathy to set in and refused to instill a playoff mentality when the time arrived.
Smith and West purely from an ability stand point were worth the trade yes, but with so much money embedded in Wallace and Wally, it completely locked the Cavs into a core team that simply wasn't good enough. It was a BAD trade, there's no other way to swing it.
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Except for the fact that the trade actually gave the Cavs MORE flexability?
Which they used to get Mo Williams.
Larry Hughes was on the hook for 70 Million over 5 years.
Ben Wallace was on the team for 1.5 years.
Larry Hughes would STILL be on the team making something like 12 million.
1 year of Ben Wallace was worse then 5 of Larry Hughes?
