"What you do speaks so loud I cannot hear what you say."

Look at your post, and then look at how no one else bothered to.  Personally, I raised one eyebrow, gave you a mental pat on the back, and then shrugged, knowing that in the end it meant nothing. 

That post proves exactly what I'm getting at: knowing what's what amounts to little if you can't rally the town around you afterwards, and your playstyle prevents you from doing so.  Unless you can unilaterally act on your suspicions (i.e. you're the vigilante or cop), you've only gone through half the battle.  And you should note that even if you roleclaim cop, your history makes it unlikely that you're going to be believed, so you may only be effective as the vigilante.

If you're comfortable with continuing with those results, then so be it.  But I'm telling you now why it hasn't worked in the past, and likely won't work in the future.

And in the end, that's basically what happened.  I was in too much of a rush the second night to double-check my impressions (that story about twelve-hour workdays?  Completely true), but the number of people who could be the cop were EXTREMELY narrow thanks to theprof.  In my mind, the cop's identity came down to a 1-in-3 chance.  And then I picked the one person who turned out to be vanilla. >_<

Ok, I understand.

It's just, what do you think was the change? Where do I stop?

Was arguing with Truck about lynch all liars meta rule good or bad? Was it first and foremost the lie that was the main problem?

I admit that I do have a lot to learn, and I want to be able to foster trust because I feel like I have some ability.

I'll try harder next game not to mislead the town.

However, what if I simply make a wrong guess?

Like on republic. I'd say a lot of the things he did could have been scum gambits. Safe lynch votes, generic claims, safe accusations. How would going after him be any worse than lieing about my name?

The way I saw it, I wanted mafia to claim named vanillas. I didn't want mafia to think Youma was a safe area. I didn't really think it through, and it ended up creating that scenario where nameless townies were getting identified. But I also didn't expect them to out themselves so easily either. I wanted it to be a warning, but it didn't turn out like that.

When I look at the things people say, I try to see the value in the words. "How does this best serve me and the town?" "Can I use this to hide myself? ""Can I use this to make myself seem like a priority?" I thought other people would be doing the same, but I thought wrong.

It's just a hard reality for me to understand, but I'll figure it out soon enough. When I'm useless, I want myself to seem important, and when I'm important I want myself to seem useless. When I try to do these things it seems to confuse the town more than anything.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers, but I'm happy to share my thoughts.

First, if you're a townie, you should almost never lie.  "Lynch all liars" is one of the better rules that the town can follow precisely because a townie almost never has to lie, so when a townie DOES lie it throws a wrench into the works.  This game is a good example: by claiming to be a named vanilla townie, you inadvertently bred mass confusion that required mass role-claiming to fix, while simultaneously getting the town off-track.

Second, don't obsess about the possibility of being wrong.  It happens, and often: that's why in a vanilla game the scum usually only make up 1/4th of the players.  If something seems suspicious, point it out and pursue it.  If you're wrong, admit to it and move on.  If you're personally suspicious, but unable to persuade folks to go with you, relent for the time being, but keep an eye on that player.  One important caveat is that jumping on too many players before you've established your bona fides (by finding scum) can be detrimental to your credibility; you may end up correctly identifying all the scum, but if you had to accuse 3/4 of the players to do it, folks are less likely to listen to what you have to say.

Finally, I think the biggest mistake you make is to start by playing the meta-game, or "yomi" as you refer to it.  Most scum are not complicated; their stories will often contain inconsistencies and gaps, because they're lying (see point one).  Some scum may end up slipping through the cracks if you only use this method, and some townies who play very poorly will get lynched because they're inconsistent, but that's what points one and two are about.  I've said it before and I'll say it again: you're very thorough and observant, which are two huge qualities for a player to possess.  I think that if you rely more on your observations and less on yomi, you'll do great.

You play a lot of gambits, prof, and the thing I think you need to learn is which ones are going to damage the team you're trying to help. 

Arguing with TOS over "lynch all liars" is no problem even though you were totally wrong
Yes, the lie about your name was a massive problem.  "First and foremost" actually hits the nail on the head IMO. 

Insert a lot of agreement with noname here. 

As far as other people not acting like you're expecting, just remember that (1) other people are going to think differently than you; (2) other people are going to have a different play style than you; (3) other people are going to have access to different information than you (which affects their behavior, calculations, and observations); et cetera.  And on the other hand, they might just not be very observant.  It happens sometimes. 

Prof it is totally okay to make mistakes. You have to go into the game with the attitude that if you're going to nail Mafia, you're going to make mistakes. You know what they say: you can't make an omelette without killing a few people.

Edit: Also did Mafia have their own forum? I kind of want to see it.

who is hosting the next game and what is the theme?

http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/CLn62aBGfZc8

Remember to start at the last page, it's newest first. 

"Also, I want to keep Khuutra alive until the very end of the game. Just so he doesn't have a hissy fit and stop playing the game."

Stay classy, dtewi.

I also now take complete and total credit for murdering all of you (sans hatmoza).

Wow i'm (almost) speechless.

I'd like to thank proff (already did in PM ) and Khuut for claiming to "know" and "guarantee" respectively that vanilla had names on day one and staying on my ass until I had to give up my exact name, fits perfectly well in a game some wanted to put modkill rules for nameclaims.... Oh one of you was nameless and the other a power role, perfect.... so you basically were on my ass based on nothing and lying all the way through... oh and you managed to get the doc to out himself as a power role too, congratz indeed.

I hardly see why Proff gets all the blame for the confusion and Khuut all the praize... they were equaly responsible for it. They are both good players and used this to sustain a lie by taking a similar strategy of decieving the town and try to get mafia to claim vanilla... it backfired.

Thanks also to the 10 other Youmas who didn't open their mouths until I gave the exact name... that was very productive too... the only support I had about possibly being a townie was from linkz (dragged because of the initial deal), trucks and dtewi.... (sorry if I missed some)

And sure I'll take the blame for the claiming text things... but in my defence from all the rounds we played here, there's been many "he's townie because he said that!" which is in essence confirming a quote from the PM. Also nameclaiming in itself is the same as claiming details of the PM, because besides in the MK round, all names have been in line with the same group. So I don't feel guilty about asking which general.

I do however recognize that asking for the "damn" was even beyond what was done before (then again, we had a townie cleared this round for a "damnable" on day one...) and is most likely what incited the other text claims. Mea culpa on this.

oh and ironically I had one mafia pegged... Hat, for not running a lynch train on me :p