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Forums - Nintendo - Here we go again: Heavy Rain creator calls Wii a toy and board game

CGI-Quality said:
richardhutnik said:
WereKitten said:
richardhutnik said:

It would be beneficial if those who create GAMES not be so full of themselves.  I have had deeper and more rewarding experiences, with more replayability, playing some boardgames than I have had playing a number of videogames.  The pretention that you think you creating a game needs to be thought of as some work of art is of higher form than even movies is absurd.  Get over yourself designers.  Stop trying to think you need to do movies.  Your compete with movies experience will end up bankrupting the industry for one thing.  And, when you have such pretention, you do something like, "Press X to Jason" ends up looking WAY out of place.

Now excuse me if my next game I play is Kirby's Epic Yarn.  Sorry if this is too much of a toy and too boardgamish for you game designer.

Read what he said in french. He was not at all dismissive about, and he actually never mentioned, board games.

He said that he thinks that people can see the difference between "a toy or a pleasant society game (experience) using the Wii" ("un jouet, ou à un jeu de société très sympa avec la Wii") and something that is more of  "an multimedia center really strong on videogames" ("un vrai centre multimédia avec vraiment un jeu vidéo extrêmement fort").

Sounds more about "you can do much more than playing games on the PS3", not "playing on the Wii is bad" to me.

Plus, since he went on in the past about how he considers his own work more an interactive drama than a classic videogame, I doubt very much that there's any derogatory sense in the distinction, or that he thinks any worse of games, either video-based or not. He's simply interested in different things and he's going along Sony's and MS's idea of pushing their machines as all-round entertainment centers.

You can take what I said, and NOT apply it the designer of Heavy Rain then.  Take what I said and apply it to anyone who begins to trumpet movies as games, and ignore "Press X to Jason" from this, although X for Jason can fit into any place where gameplay matters, and not excessive dependence on stories.  I would go with the original French, but I don't read it.  Apparently the original poster had an agenda or the writer of the article did, if that isn't right.  In this, I will stand by, if the game industry keeps thinking it wants to make movies, it will end up bankrupting itself. 

You really need to cut out this bullshit about bankruptcy. Had the game been a disaster on sales, you may have validity. But since you have a known history of trashing this game, and the game is FAR ahead of it's original projection, that's just not making sense.

What I do know is the videogame industry has this resentment or envy of the movie industry, and there is a push to try to create a movie-like experience in games.  This is a major reason for production costs going up regarding games, combine with the industry whining about how used games are harming them, and Kotick going off how he can repackage cut scenes as a movie for people to watch.  The industry is operating on razor thin profits, because it keeps driving production costs up.  How many games do you think will be profitable if the average budget is $100 million to make a game?  What I do know is BOARDGAMES are a lot less money to develop, and generally have greater replayability than the wannabe movie.

Please go and argue how the videogame industry is in fine shape from a profitability standpoint.  I would like to hear your argument regarding this.  I said profitability, not REVENUES.



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Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games? Wii is known to have more child friendly games.

The PS3 is just one of these 6-in-one board games.



Above: still the best game of the year.

amp316 said:
Ail said:
Dv8thwonder said:

It's not so much that he stated the obvious. It's that he had the gaul to use it as an insult to bolster attention to a platform (PS3) that has an identity crisis. He himself shares this affliction because his games are not games. They're poorly scripted interacive B-movies. /rant

 

The big bad man criticized your platform and you are mad about it eh ?

And last I checked the one platform with an identity crisis is the Wii, not the PS3 right now...

 


I'm not so sure about that.  The Wii is always the Wii, like it or not. 

The PS3 is now trying to be the PS3 and the Wii simultaneously.

And then you take tthe 360 with Kinect, and the way they talk about the system with Kinect, on how having NO controller is SO accessible, and people get real joy from it, it looks like the 360 is trying to be 2 Wiis duct-taped together.  Nothing like Microsoft playing the Borg and assimilating the sales pitch Nintendo did for the Wii, oh about 5 years ago?



Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games? Wii is known to have more child friendly games.


From me, I get upset when boardgames are used as a derogatory term by some in the videogame industry to take shots at form of play that aren't "movie-like" enough, or lack in supposed storytelling.  For me, it is an issue, because people have the Monopoly connotation as to that is what boardgames are about, when the wealth of play in a boardgame goes fairly wide.  There is a level of contempt shown to boardgames by some who are hardcore videogamers, that is not good in my opinion.  I personally also watch people who struggle to make ends meet try to put out boardgames, and not nearly get the same level of respect, let alone money from working on boardgame stuff.  Here is an example of the trials of getting a boardgame done:

http://michaelmindes.com/kickstarting-eminent-domain

All I can say here is check this game out.  If it looks interesting, support them.  And I would also say that, if you think boardgames are just like Monopoly, visit Boardgame Geek, and see what is out there, as far as a variety of games you can play.  And one thing boardgames do have over videogames, is in a number of them, you little toys you can actually play with.  Yes, fun bits, and more social interaction in person.  You get to spend real time face to face with someone.



forest-spirit said:
Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games?


There's nothing offensive about calling Wii a board game; it's a compliment; board games is the most hardcore kind of entertainment there is!

While that is true, depending on the game (some stuff is REAL light), it is ironic the videogame industry sticks board game stuff in the "Casual" category.  Well, I do play off that a bit with the CADERS project that sticks casual and retro together.



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richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games?


There's nothing offensive about calling Wii a board game; it's a compliment; board games is the most hardcore kind of entertainment there is!

While that is true, depending on the game (some stuff is REAL light), it is ironic the videogame industry sticks board game stuff in the "Casual" category.  Well, I do play off that a bit with the CADERS project that sticks casual and retro together.


Damn right! I mean, as you said there are some very simple board games but writing them all off as "casual" is madness and ignorance at it's finest! Instead of laughing at them the industry really sould learn from them. Several game genres has their roots in board games after all.



Speaking of board games ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrBauG5FhZA&feature=player_embedded

:)



Smidlee said:

Speaking of board games ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrBauG5FhZA&feature=player_embedded

:)

That is the second attempt to do the computer game as a boardgame actually.  The first one was done by Eagle Games and got VERY mixed reviews.  It had issues and didn't work right.  However, you do see some of those elements in that attempt to Civilization: Revolution.  On another note, there IS another boardgame called "Civilization" which was a boardgame first.  It is a classic.  Usually will take a full day to play though.



forest-spirit said:
richardhutnik said:
forest-spirit said:
Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games?


There's nothing offensive about calling Wii a board game; it's a compliment; board games is the most hardcore kind of entertainment there is!

While that is true, depending on the game (some stuff is REAL light), it is ironic the videogame industry sticks board game stuff in the "Casual" category.  Well, I do play off that a bit with the CADERS project that sticks casual and retro together.


Damn right! I mean, as you said there are some very simple board games but writing them all off as "casual" is madness and ignorance at it's finest! Instead of laughing at them the industry really sould learn from them. Several game genres has their roots in board games after all.

I am taking "casual" to now mean "we don't need a large dev team to get it out", this the development is more casual than this like a movie development cycles.  Also, CADERS sticks boardgames under the C for "Casuals" in the name (Casuals And Devotees of Everything Retro Society.  Yes it is manglish, but done so it can sound like arcade).



richardhutnik said:
Smidlee said:

Speaking of board games ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrBauG5FhZA&feature=player_embedded

:)

That is the second attempt to do the computer game as a boardgame actually.  The first one was done by Eagle Games and got VERY mixed reviews.  It had issues and didn't work right.  However, you do see some of those elements in that attempt to Civilization: Revolution.  On another note, there IS another boardgame called "Civilization" which was a boardgame first.  It is a classic.  Usually will take a full day to play though.


I remember playing a few times  Civilization made by Avalon Hill (?) with friends in the mid-80's.