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Forums - General Discussion - The Tea Party - how frightening is this movement?

badgenome on 28 October 2010
ManusJustus said:

badgenome said:

I'm not entirely sure whether O'Donnell meant the words "separation of church and state" aren't in the First Amendment (they aren't) or if she truly doesn't know that the idea of this separation is derived from the First Amendment.


Its the latter.  I've heard countless conservative arguments from friends as well as television commentators (its like there is a conservative mother brain telling people what to say, lol).  Anyway, these type of conservative think that seperation of Church and State comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, ignoring the fact that he wrote the Constitution and he was using seperation of church and state to describe what he wrote, or the fact that many other presidents and founding fathers used the words seperation of church and state as well.

It would be like arguing with JK Rowling over the meaning of a Harry Potter book.

Except James Madison was the primary author of the Constitution.

I weep for my country.



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ManusJustus on 28 October 2010
rocketpig said:

You live in Utah?

I don't mind Utah as much because, while I disagree with much of its politics, I can't condemn people for wanting to have their own little "sanctuary" as long as it's within the boundaries of Federal Law (but, as you said, Utah pushes the boundaries of that as far as possible).

Utah Mormons will never gain significant power within the Federal government so I have a hard time getting too riled up about it.

Unfortunately, work brought me here.

Freedom should extend throughout the United States, there shouldn't be an island of un-democratic, un-American policies in the middle of it.



rocketpig on 28 October 2010
ManusJustus said:

badgenome said:

I'm not entirely sure whether O'Donnell meant the words "separation of church and state" aren't in the First Amendment (they aren't) or if she truly doesn't know that the idea of this separation is derived from the First Amendment.


Its the latter.  I've heard countless conservative arguments from friends as well as television commentators (its like there is a conservative mother brain telling people what to say, lol).  Anyway, these type of conservative think that seperation of Church and State comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote, ignoring the fact that he wrote the Constitution and he was using seperation of church and state to describe what he wrote, or the fact that many other presidents and founding fathers used the words seperation of church and state as well.

It would be like arguing with JK Rowling over the meaning of a Harry Potter book.

Jefferson was one of many who wrote the Constitution and Jefferson's letter was about state's rights, not true separation. Still, your point is valid because it's rather evident from multiple writings that Jefferson was not an advocate for religion meddling with government.




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ManusJustus on 28 October 2010
badgenome said:

Except James Madison was the primary author of the Constitution.

I weep for my country.

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.”

- James Madison



rocketpig on 28 October 2010
ManusJustus said:
rocketpig said:

You live in Utah?

I don't mind Utah as much because, while I disagree with much of its politics, I can't condemn people for wanting to have their own little "sanctuary" as long as it's within the boundaries of Federal Law (but, as you said, Utah pushes the boundaries of that as far as possible).

Utah Mormons will never gain significant power within the Federal government so I have a hard time getting too riled up about it.

Unfortunately, work brought me here.

Freedom should extend throughout the United States, there shouldn't be an island of un-democratic, un-American policies in the middle of it.

In a Republic, Utah has the right to govern as its people see fit so long as they don't overstep Federal law. Utah is a borderline case but in the US, "freedom", such as it is, should be of varying levels depending on its populace.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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badgenome on 28 October 2010
ManusJustus said:
badgenome said:

Except James Madison was the primary author of the Constitution.

I weep for my country.

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.”

- James Madison

Great, but I'm not arguing that Madison wasn't for separation of church and state. The First Amendment is very clear.

I would argue that:

A. "My conservative friends said this. LOL, conservative hive mind!" means nothing.

B. Chris Coons is at least as ignorant as Christine O'Donnell, and sadly, he will actually be elected.

C. Thomas Jefferson is not to the Constitution as J.K. Rowling is to the worst shit ever Harry Potter.



mhsillen on 28 October 2010
rocketpig said:
mhsillen said:

And of course Palin is stupid...no wait.... she is smart as she is taking over the world.

By feeding on peoples' most base fears and riling them into a fervor over it.

Yeah, that's just fantastic. Or demagogery, depending on your party affiliation.


People don't need to be riled up as the economy sucks and President Obama continues to spend, spend, spend.

You do realize that it is the belief by dems and repubs that we are sinking.  Their is a misery index and that the meter is now lower than when Cater was in office.  I lived thru the Carter presidency and my mother a JFK democrat voted for Reagan.  While you think "nothing to see here..move along



rocketpig on 28 October 2010
mhsillen said:
rocketpig said:
mhsillen said:

And of course Palin is stupid...no wait.... she is smart as she is taking over the world.

By feeding on peoples' most base fears and riling them into a fervor over it.

Yeah, that's just fantastic. Or demagogery, depending on your party affiliation.


People don't need to be riled up as the economy sucks and President Obama continues to spend, spend, spend.

You do realize that it is the belief by dems and repubs that we are sinking.  Their is a misery index and that the meter is now lower than when Cater was in office.  I lived thru the Carter presidency and my mother a JFK democrat voted for Reagan.  While you think "nothing to see here..move along

People don't need to be riled up, which is what makes Palin's actions even more deplorable. Instead of focusing her power on a stumbling administration and Congress to drive home a fiscally conservative point, we get insane ramblings about Ground Zero Mosques and Obama's "Christian Nation" comment meant solely to rev people up into a slowly building state of Islamophobia.




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ManusJustus on 28 October 2010
badgenome said:
ManusJustus said:
badgenome said:

Except James Madison was the primary author of the Constitution.

I weep for my country.

“The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.”

- James Madison

Great, but I'm not arguing that Madison wasn't for separation of church and state. The First Amendment is very clear.

I would argue that:

A. "My conservative friends said this. LOL, conservative hive mind!" means nothing.

B. Chris Coons is at least as ignorant as Christine O'Donnell, and sadly, he will actually be elected.

C. Thomas Jefferson is not to the Constitution as J.K. Rowling is to the worst shit ever Harry Potter.

A. Its a joke, but I still find it funny that I see the same argument on the internet, on the television, and from friends.

B.  To be honest, I don't know much about Coons so he could be an idiot, but I do know that O'Donnell is a complete idiot.

C. Okay, Thomas Jefferson is to the Constitution as Friedrich Engels is to the Communist Manifesto (a lesser author than Marx).



FreeTalkLive on 28 October 2010

I was just at a Tea Party rally in Keene, NH.  It was like 2/3s typical Republicans, some Libertarians, some undeclared/independents, a few anarchists and a Democrat or two.  The tops were on Republican elections, Libertarian elections, Independent elections, how the Constitution hasn't been very effective and alternative alternative currencies like Shire Silver.

Everything seemed pretty normal to me.  Maybe there was slightly more anger than with a typical group of people and slightly more patriotism but oh well, that's conservative Republicans for you.



 

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