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Forums - Gaming - Playstation Move Vs. Xbox 360 Kinect: Metacritic

kowenicki said:

I agree with much of that...   I would have a little more respect for the MOVE venture if they did get a little braver with it though, throw a big franchise at it and see what happens I say.


As someone who isn't a big fan of motion controls I would prefer they keep the big franchises as both control options.  It's certainly the best option for the consumer even if it disqualifies them for forum lists.



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kowenicki said:
Torillian said:
kowenicki said:
 

I agree with much of that...   I would have a little more respect for the MOVE venture if they did get a little braver with it though, throw a big franchise at it and see what happens I say.


As someone who isn't a big fan of motion controls I would prefer they keep the big franchises as both control options.  It's certainly the best option for the consumer even if it disqualifies them for forum lists.


Its not about that for me, Reasonable understood what I was saying. 

Surely you would be a fan of it if it grabbed one of your favourite games and enhanced it in some way?  Why would you discount on the basis of not being a big fan at the moment?

If it enhances it then it doesn't have to be the only way to play it for people to take notice.  Wii fans have been saying for years that pointer controls are bar none better than dual analog for shooters and that will certainly be tested when Killzone 3, inFamous 2, and MAG 2.0 are released.  If they are distinctly better I'm sure people will take notice and the community for those games will move towards those controls and more will become fans of the Move regardless of whether the game is solely Move controlled.

And yes I get that you would respect the Move more if Sony put more behind it, but I think that giving the consumer options instead of trying to jam something down their throats is what I'd prefer.  It's not as though MS has committed to putting any big established franchise on the Kinect either so by that theory you shouldn't have much more respect for it than Move.

I discount the idea because I have played tons of great games on Wii that I didn't feel were enhanced by motion controls in the slightest.  The games that really are enhanced by it are new franchises made with motion controls in mind. 



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kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Reasonable said:
Xenostar said:

Someone from the complaining camp should just make anew thread containing all games that support the controllers, then people that care about core games with motion controls will have a place to look. 

 

Or the author of this thread good just edit his first post to create 2 tables,

-Motion Exclusive games

-Motion including Hybrid Games

Ah... common sense.  Nice to see.  Sadly it'll probably be ignored.

Thats not really sensible. We don't need multiple threads about the same thing. It was annoying with Forza 3 and it was annoying with KZ2. The sensible thing to do is add all motion games since this is a comparison thread and the only reason anyone would need to compare is to see what they can use their purchase for... and you can use your move to play HR.


He made two sensible suggestions IMO.  My preference would be to see two tables in one thread, a table for full Move/Kinect support and a table for hybrid.  But I'd take two threads if it meant an end to the bickering.

Funny thing is, all this bickering is for two sets of fairly mediocre libraries for two new peripherals and that between both Move and Kinect there are only really a handfull of actually full on good titles.

Mind you, I just looked at Metartic for hardware reviews on the two devices, and when that table goes up I guess the shit is really going to hit the fan.

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/microsoft-xbox-kinect-review-roundup/

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/playstation-move-reviews/


Nice, subtle deflection there.  But isnt it odd that a device with supposedly weaker reviews seems to be getting stronger actual gaming reviews?... which matters most?   

In the long run its the software that utilises the new control that counts.  I think the temptation  to simply add the MOVE to existing franchises as an option will actually weaken its impact. 

Each device needs a few apps that force the buyer to pick them up to play them. 

This may come down to how brave Sony want to be...  do they release the next iteration of one of their major franchises as a MOVE required game or not? If I was them I'd give it a go.  If for instance the next Uncharted demanded MOVE then we would know for sure the appetite for the device and Sony could cement its future.  Or it could backfire in a big way and kill it?  Worth a shot imo.  Show some belief in your product Sony, back up the big words.

 


No deflection intended because none needed.  Both Move and Kinect have mediocre libraries with essentially the same spread of reviews at this point - as clarified a few posts earlier in a much clearer table.  I think it's a stretch at this point to say it's seeing stronger reviews overall because I see no real evidence of that.  76 vs 74 type differences are nothing, both have terrible reviews for their boxing titles, Joy Ride would be even lower - and probably will go lower - if it weren't for a couple of clearly generous reviews and even then it's still very low.  Kung Fu Rider is flawed, The Shoot is average, etc.

In short, neither Sony nor Microsoft have started with a bang once you actually cut through any hype, marketing, launch parties, fireworks, sexy TV ads, etc.

The actual titles are in fact I'd argue potentially worrying as the majority of them appear to be titles that heavily rely on mechanics/genres already proven on the Wii - i.e. they feel cautious, safe and let's try some sports, some dancing, maybe some boxing/golf, etc.

I feel the overall LTD support for motion controls on the Wii has been spotty, and many third party developers seem to have been stumped compared to traditional controls, while Nintendo have delivered but with only a small smattering of really core motion control titles.  And that's for a console that has a higher install base and can sell more software than either PS3/360.

Let me just say I remain concerned at this point regarding the ability Sony/Microsoft (and third party developers) to do better with this wave of motion controllers than has been delivered on Wii.

Unlike many I actually do appreciate the risk MS is taking with Kinect vs Sony with Move.  Sony is playing it safe - and as a result while I kind of agree in principle with your points I doubt they will force a big franchise to use Move.  MS is taking a bigger risk.

I'm just noting that if this is the level of bickering over the launch titles I can only imagine the bickering over the hardware reviews as noted on the same site that's sourcing the reviews for this thread.

For example, it's no surprise to me Move is scoring a bit better as hardware.  Not because I'm some Sony fan - to me it's just a device like I have Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Nokia, HTC and other branded devices in my house - but because Move is the safe choice.  It's in a sense Version 2.0, building both on Sony's own experiences with EyeToy as well as Nintendo with Wii - Move is based on proven tech/approaches and as such it is pretty robust as noted.  Kinect is Version 1.0 and as a result was almost certain to see much more 'wait and see' type reviews and there would be a sense it's perhaps just a little bit less robust overall (note by robust I don't mean RROD I mean working a majority of the time in a very broad number of environments - so others please don't post "I had trouble with Move but not Kinect type stuff as individual annecdotes don't mean anything in this context").

So to be clear I'm very interested in this stuff.  I've had a Wii for ages.  I've invested in Move.  Kinect (and the very nice new 360s) have got me checking out the 360 again.  But I'm cautious that when you really get critical around motion controls there hasn't been that much substance nor innovation overall since the Wii launched.

However, on a more positive note - now all 3 consoles have motion controls I do hope to see competition plus a broader install base shake things up a little.  After all, in theory, if I develop a title that I can make work on all 3 - which should be possible although clearly Kinect would require some differences for input - I now have a huge target install base.

Even where we have Move/Kinect exclusive stuff I hope the very nature of the competition raises the bar a bit.

I agree with much of that...   I would have a little more respect for the MOVE venture if they did get a little braver with it though, throw a big franchise at it and see what happens I say.


The advantage of Move is that it can leech of the Wii library (Dead Space Extraction, the crap Lotr game, etc). Kinect will not be able to do this. Developers will be able to produce games for Move with less development risks leading to the possibility of developing a larger library.



kowenicki said:

To be entirely fair about it, MS has said that they do favour standard controls for certain genre, they do see it as a different experience.  Having said that they have also just said they intend for some hybrid games... so who knows.  :P

But in my mind when they say hybrid game that's something that will have an option to use Kinect in some way and won't require Kinect to play it similar to how LBP2 has a few extra levels that require Move and you can use it for the level editing.  I could be wrong but until I see evidence to the contrary that's what I think will happen with hybrid games. 



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Fufinu said:
kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Reasonable said:
Xenostar said:


No deflection intended because none needed.  Both Move and Kinect have mediocre libraries with essentially the same spread of reviews at this point - as clarified a few posts earlier in a much clearer table.  I think it's a stretch at this point to say it's seeing stronger reviews overall because I see no real evidence of that.  76 vs 74 type differences are nothing, both have terrible reviews for their boxing titles, Joy Ride would be even lower - and probably will go lower - if it weren't for a couple of clearly generous reviews and even then it's still very low.  Kung Fu Rider is flawed, The Shoot is average, etc.

In short, neither Sony nor Microsoft have started with a bang once you actually cut through any hype, marketing, launch parties, fireworks, sexy TV ads, etc.

The actual titles are in fact I'd argue potentially worrying as the majority of them appear to be titles that heavily rely on mechanics/genres already proven on the Wii - i.e. they feel cautious, safe and let's try some sports, some dancing, maybe some boxing/golf, etc.

I feel the overall LTD support for motion controls on the Wii has been spotty, and many third party developers seem to have been stumped compared to traditional controls, while Nintendo have delivered but with only a small smattering of really core motion control titles.  And that's for a console that has a higher install base and can sell more software than either PS3/360.

Let me just say I remain concerned at this point regarding the ability Sony/Microsoft (and third party developers) to do better with this wave of motion controllers than has been delivered on Wii.

Unlike many I actually do appreciate the risk MS is taking with Kinect vs Sony with Move.  Sony is playing it safe - and as a result while I kind of agree in principle with your points I doubt they will force a big franchise to use Move.  MS is taking a bigger risk.

I'm just noting that if this is the level of bickering over the launch titles I can only imagine the bickering over the hardware reviews as noted on the same site that's sourcing the reviews for this thread.

For example, it's no surprise to me Move is scoring a bit better as hardware.  Not because I'm some Sony fan - to me it's just a device like I have Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Nokia, HTC and other branded devices in my house - but because Move is the safe choice.  It's in a sense Version 2.0, building both on Sony's own experiences with EyeToy as well as Nintendo with Wii - Move is based on proven tech/approaches and as such it is pretty robust as noted.  Kinect is Version 1.0 and as a result was almost certain to see much more 'wait and see' type reviews and there would be a sense it's perhaps just a little bit less robust overall (note by robust I don't mean RROD I mean working a majority of the time in a very broad number of environments - so others please don't post "I had trouble with Move but not Kinect type stuff as individual annecdotes don't mean anything in this context").

So to be clear I'm very interested in this stuff.  I've had a Wii for ages.  I've invested in Move.  Kinect (and the very nice new 360s) have got me checking out the 360 again.  But I'm cautious that when you really get critical around motion controls there hasn't been that much substance nor innovation overall since the Wii launched.

However, on a more positive note - now all 3 consoles have motion controls I do hope to see competition plus a broader install base shake things up a little.  After all, in theory, if I develop a title that I can make work on all 3 - which should be possible although clearly Kinect would require some differences for input - I now have a huge target install base.

Even where we have Move/Kinect exclusive stuff I hope the very nature of the competition raises the bar a bit.

I agree with much of that...   I would have a little more respect for the MOVE venture if they did get a little braver with it though, throw a big franchise at it and see what happens I say.


The advantage of Move is that it can leech of the Wii library (Dead Space Extraction, the crap Lotr game, etc). Kinect will not be able to do this. Developers will be able to produce games for Move with less development risks leading to the possibility of developing a larger library.

Yup.  That's another aspect of Move being a safe strategy from Sony.  I would imagine they see three advantages here:

1 - third party developers will be tempted to get previous Wii titles on PS3 - I think this has already happed with a couple of titles but can't remember which.  If this happens Sony knows it means Move will see it's library of titles grow pretty quickly

2 - it must now be ugely tempting to third parties to target Wii/PS3 with the caveat they'll have to stump up a bit more cash for some HD level textures, etc.  But still, with almost identifcal control schemes it would be very, very easy to put a game on Wii/PS3 now.  Advantages for Sony are again rapidly expanding library plus a softening of Wii's status as the only place to get certain titles.

3 - with Wii/Move so similar, Sony are probably hoping that developers who go for option 2) above decide Kinect is too different to support and go for the larger Wii/PS3 install base, particularly as with the Wii that install base should, in theory, be the most receptive to good family casual titles

 

Kinect really is quite an interesting risk when you look at it carefully.  With the 360 MS focused on being easy to develop for, easy to port to, easy to get games on.  Now, they've come out fighting with something different enough from the Wii that it is Kinect that could be seen as new and tricky, as a risk to support.  I think MS are putting a lot of effort into Kinect, and will certainly comission plenty of software, but Kinect remains a risky approach.

I applaud the risk and recognize it as a bold attempt to really jump forward.  Move I think will be a success and even if it's only moderate it won't hurt Sony at all.

Kinect is different.  It could be a huge success, it could be moderate, but it could even hurt MS (again, I'd contend there is no way Move could hurt Sony in any way as a brand or whatever) and that's where the risk comes in.  Kinect could fail, and not only that, but it could harm MS brand around 360 and the hardcore.  No one sees it as odd that Sony should support somthing like Move.  But MS?  The home of Halo?  Online hardcore gaming?  A platform whose top titles are all mature rated?  Yup.  Kinect is as big risk all around.

As if everything around the PS3/360 wasn't exciting enough I'd say with Move/Kinect things just got a lot more exciting in terms of how each brand is going to go forward for the rest of this gen.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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is the wii port of dead space on the list?



This has probably be said a few times but.. not including MAG / Heavy Rain in the analysis at ALL is biased.


why not even have two charts? One with a complete set and one with games that exclusively use the specific hardware.



Seece:

Current games such as Heavy Rain and RE5 will not be added, this is specifically motion controller games only.

I've never quite understood why you are so infatuated with metacritic. But since this thread is specifically dealing with metascores, why leave the highest ranked PS3 games out?

It's like even when you make a thread about metacritic, which in itself is a wack site which means nothing, there still need to be rules that leave out certain games (which happen to be PS3 games).



kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Reasonable said:
Xenostar said:

Someone from the complaining camp should just make anew thread containing all games that support the controllers, then people that care about core games with motion controls will have a place to look. 

 

Or the author of this thread good just edit his first post to create 2 tables,

-Motion Exclusive games

-Motion including Hybrid Games

Ah... common sense.  Nice to see.  Sadly it'll probably be ignored.

Thats not really sensible. We don't need multiple threads about the same thing. It was annoying with Forza 3 and it was annoying with KZ2. The sensible thing to do is add all motion games since this is a comparison thread and the only reason anyone would need to compare is to see what they can use their purchase for... and you can use your move to play HR.


He made two sensible suggestions IMO.  My preference would be to see two tables in one thread, a table for full Move/Kinect support and a table for hybrid.  But I'd take two threads if it meant an end to the bickering.

Funny thing is, all this bickering is for two sets of fairly mediocre libraries for two new peripherals and that between both Move and Kinect there are only really a handfull of actually full on good titles.

Mind you, I just looked at Metartic for hardware reviews on the two devices, and when that table goes up I guess the shit is really going to hit the fan.

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/microsoft-xbox-kinect-review-roundup/

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/playstation-move-reviews/


Nice, subtle deflection there.  But isnt it odd that a device with supposedly weaker reviews seems to be getting stronger actual gaming reviews?... which matters most?   

In the long run its the software that utilises the new control that counts.  I think the temptation  to simply add the MOVE to existing franchises as an option will actually weaken its impact. 

Each device needs a few apps that force the buyer to pick them up to play them. 

This may come down to how brave Sony want to be...  do they release the next iteration of one of their major franchises as a MOVE required game or not? If I was them I'd give it a go.  If for instance the next Uncharted demanded MOVE then we would know for sure the appetite for the device and Sony could cement its future.  Or it could backfire in a big way and kill it?  Worth a shot imo.  Show some belief in your product Sony, back up the big words.

 

are you really telling people that sony should completely discount a 2nd controller option with the DS3 for consumers who would only play their "big" franchise with a DS3?

are you serious kowenicki? Are you trying to tout microsoft is "brave" for releasing DANCE CENTRAL/KINECTIANIMALS/KINECT SPORTS as kinect only titles? Why doesn't microsoft release HALO KINECT? Why don't you point that out, instead of just taking a hit at sony as you always do?



 

mM
leo-j said:
kowenicki said:
Reasonable said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Reasonable said:
Xenostar said:

Someone from the complaining camp should just make anew thread containing all games that support the controllers, then people that care about core games with motion controls will have a place to look. 

 

Or the author of this thread good just edit his first post to create 2 tables,

-Motion Exclusive games

-Motion including Hybrid Games

Ah... common sense.  Nice to see.  Sadly it'll probably be ignored.

Thats not really sensible. We don't need multiple threads about the same thing. It was annoying with Forza 3 and it was annoying with KZ2. The sensible thing to do is add all motion games since this is a comparison thread and the only reason anyone would need to compare is to see what they can use their purchase for... and you can use your move to play HR.


He made two sensible suggestions IMO.  My preference would be to see two tables in one thread, a table for full Move/Kinect support and a table for hybrid.  But I'd take two threads if it meant an end to the bickering.

Funny thing is, all this bickering is for two sets of fairly mediocre libraries for two new peripherals and that between both Move and Kinect there are only really a handfull of actually full on good titles.

Mind you, I just looked at Metartic for hardware reviews on the two devices, and when that table goes up I guess the shit is really going to hit the fan.

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/microsoft-xbox-kinect-review-roundup/

http://features.metacritic.com/features/2010/playstation-move-reviews/


Nice, subtle deflection there.  But isnt it odd that a device with supposedly weaker reviews seems to be getting stronger actual gaming reviews?... which matters most?   

In the long run its the software that utilises the new control that counts.  I think the temptation  to simply add the MOVE to existing franchises as an option will actually weaken its impact. 

Each device needs a few apps that force the buyer to pick them up to play them. 

This may come down to how brave Sony want to be...  do they release the next iteration of one of their major franchises as a MOVE required game or not? If I was them I'd give it a go.  If for instance the next Uncharted demanded MOVE then we would know for sure the appetite for the device and Sony could cement its future.  Or it could backfire in a big way and kill it?  Worth a shot imo.  Show some belief in your product Sony, back up the big words.

 

are you really telling people that sony should completely discount a 2nd controller option with the DS3 for consumers who would only play their "big" franchise with a DS3?

are you serious kowenicki? Are you trying to tout microsoft is "brave" for releasing DANCE CENTRAL/KINECTIANIMALS/KINECT SPORTS as kinect only titles? Why doesn't microsoft release HALO KINECT? Why don't you point that out, instead of just taking a hit at sony as you always do?

lmao you literally stole it from me. Kowenecki what you're saying for Sony to do would be a redicolous business decision that would piss off thousands if not millions of fans. And I'm talking fans of PS3. The haters would jump on it like flies on shit as well.

Releasing Uncharted 3 as Move only would be Fail of the year on Sony's part.