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Forums - General Discussion - Angela Merkel = Hitler II?

Jansky8 on 19 October 2010

It's one thing to be equal, it's an other to be identical. Do you think men and women are identical. I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that for you equality=identical. Do you think men and women are identical? I am not saying one is superior to the other. But to say they are identical is non-sense. However here I am assuming that is what you think. Maybe I am wrong.

 

This is of cours for the OP



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ManusJustus on 19 October 2010
Kasz216 said:

Aren't you the one who thinks most politicians are atheists and only pretend to be christians to maitnain power?

They are.  10% of Americans are atheist, and that percentage is mostly made up of educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and so forth.  The same type of people who end up getting elected to political office.  Yet, almost 100% of Congressman are religious, with the only outlier being one represetantive from California.

Since 10% of America is atheist, and they are the most productive and well-behaved members of soceity, you'd better hope that more than 0.2% of Congress is atheist.  :)



lightbleeder on 19 October 2010
numonex said:

Conservative German Chancellor  preaching nationalism and racist values. Scape goating immigrants and using them as a political football for cheap political point scoring. Lowest common denominator push polling to divide and conquer society.

Immigrant scape goat is a wedge issue that is often used by populist politicians. This could get very nasty by using the immigrants as the scape goat to blame for Germany's problems. 

Segretationist policies of apartheid: Zimbabwe and South Africa do not work. Assimilation policies forcing people into adopting your way of life do not work either. Multiculturalism and allowing the different cultures to live freely within society within the laws of a nation work better than the other cultural policies. 

Yeah but would it be racist if nations don't allow inmigrants that aren't compatible with natives of those countries? I don't think so, politicians and inmigration offices should listen to what the people want instead of accepting a lot of inmigrants that don't want to blend in, criticize the culture of the nation and wouldn't allow their children marry the children of the native citizens



sapphi_snake on 19 October 2010
Jansky8 said:

It's one thing to be equal, it's an other to be identical. Do you think men and women are identical. I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that for you equality=identical. Do you think men and women are identical? I am not saying one is superior to the other. But to say they are identical is non-sense. However here I am assuming that is what you think. Maybe I am wrong.

 

This is of cours for the OP

The differences between men and women aren't as big as one would assume. They may not be identical, but they're certainly not very different. And they can certainly do most of the same jobs and have the same roles (women can have corporate jobs, men can take care of the home etc.).



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Kasz216 on 19 October 2010
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Aren't you the one who thinks most politicians are atheists and only pretend to be christians to maitnain power?

They are.  10% of Americans are atheist, and that percentage is mostly made up of educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and so forth.  The same type of people who end up getting elected to political office.  Yet, almost 100% of Congressman are religious, with the only outlier being one represetantive from California.

Since 10% of America is atheist, and they are the most productive and well-behaved members of soceity, you'd better hope that more than 0.2% of Congress is atheist.  :)

So, in otherwords.  You concede the Hitler point.



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FaRmLaNd on 19 October 2010
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Aren't you the one who thinks most politicians are atheists and only pretend to be christians to maitnain power?

They are.  10% of Americans are atheist, and that percentage is mostly made up of educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and so forth.  The same type of people who end up getting elected to political office.  Yet, almost 100% of Congressman are religious, with the only outlier being one represetantive from California.

Since 10% of America is atheist, and they are the most productive and well-behaved members of soceity, you'd better hope that more than 0.2% of Congress is atheist.  :)

So, in otherwords.  You concede the Hitler point.

Well I don't know what Hitler really was. But he did actively call upon God and a divine providence in his speeches and opposed Atheism because it was tied to marxism. Does that mean he was Christian? No. He may well have been, but he might not have been. Unlike now, a far larger percentage of the populace of western countries were Christian back then so the odds were that he was, but I don't think it really matters.

If you're in the dictator business you'd be a fool not to use such a great tool. Or in Stalins case, create things like the personality cult to replace it. Remember that Stalin was trained at a seminary, it probably gave him a lot of inspiration.

What worries me are Atheists that would be hypocrites and use religion in such a way. For example, the current Australian Prime-Minister Julia Gillard is an atheist. However she opposes gay marriage on cultural grounds, as does one of the ministers in her cabinet who is actually a lesbian. The labor party would have lost a lot of votes due to such hypocrisy. What it clearly was, was pandering to the Christian vote.

Which I doubt was actually a useful tactic because the vast majority of Australians support gay marriage and the really hardcore Christian that wouldn't vote for the Labor party because of its support of gay marriage would probably not vote for her party anyway because she's an atheist. It just seemed counter productive and hypocritical. 



HappySqurriel on 19 October 2010
numonex said:

Conservative German Chancellor  preaching nationalism and racist values. Scape goating immigrants and using them as a political football for cheap political point scoring. Lowest common denominator push polling to divide and conquer society.

Immigrant scape goat is a wedge issue that is often used by populist politicians. This could get very nasty by using the immigrants as the scape goat to blame for Germany's problems. 

Segretationist policies of apartheid: Zimbabwe and South Africa do not work. Assimilation policies forcing people into adopting your way of life do not work either. Multiculturalism and allowing the different cultures to live freely within society within the laws of a nation work better than the other cultural policies. 


Here is a question for you, suppose a socially progressive state had a very strong economy and was attracting migration from far less progressive states and these new migrants were very homophobic, racist and "anti-progressive" in values; would it be wrong for people in this state to suggest that these individuals adopt more progressive values or return to the state they came from?

Why is it wrong and racist when it is happening in a country and the homophobic and racist individuals are immigrants?

Isn't it racist to allow someone to have (otherwise) unacceptable views and behaviors simply because of the colour of their skin?



Kasz216 on 20 October 2010
FaRmLaNd said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Aren't you the one who thinks most politicians are atheists and only pretend to be christians to maitnain power?

They are.  10% of Americans are atheist, and that percentage is mostly made up of educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and so forth.  The same type of people who end up getting elected to political office.  Yet, almost 100% of Congressman are religious, with the only outlier being one represetantive from California.

Since 10% of America is atheist, and they are the most productive and well-behaved members of soceity, you'd better hope that more than 0.2% of Congress is atheist.  :)

So, in otherwords.  You concede the Hitler point.

Well I don't know what Hitler really was. But he did actively call upon God and a divine providence in his speeches and opposed Atheism because it was tied to marxism. Does that mean he was Christian? No. He may well have been, but he might not have been. Unlike now, a far larger percentage of the populace of western countries were Christian back then so the odds were that he was, but I don't think it really matters.

If you're in the dictator business you'd be a fool not to use such a great tool. Or in Stalins case, create things like the personality cult to replace it. Remember that Stalin was trained at a seminary, it probably gave him a lot of inspiration.

What worries me are Atheists that would be hypocrites and use religion in such a way. For example, the current Australian Prime-Minister Julia Gillard is an atheist. However she opposes gay marriage on cultural grounds, as does one of the ministers in her cabinet who is actually a lesbian. The labor party would have lost a lot of votes due to such hypocrisy. What it clearly was, was pandering to the Christian vote.

Which I doubt was actually a useful tactic because the vast majority of Australians support gay marriage and the really hardcore Christian that wouldn't vote for the Labor party because of its support of gay marriage would probably not vote for her party anyway because she's an atheist. It just seemed counter productive and hypocritical. 


He's said in speeches he believes in an all powerful god.   He's said in speeches that religion is a disease that must be wiped out at all costs.  He's said in speeches he tried to deal with peoples foolish belief in religion but can't because it's a mistake.

Which of these is likely to be made up?  There is no benefit towards manufactured atheist beliefs.



MrBubbles on 20 October 2010
Kasz216 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

Aren't you the one who thinks most politicians are atheists and only pretend to be christians to maitnain power?

They are.  10% of Americans are atheist, and that percentage is mostly made up of educated doctors, lawyers, businessmen, and so forth.  The same type of people who end up getting elected to political office.  Yet, almost 100% of Congressman are religious, with the only outlier being one represetantive from California.

Since 10% of America is atheist, and they are the most productive and well-behaved members of soceity, you'd better hope that more than 0.2% of Congress is atheist.  :)

So, in otherwords.  You concede the Hitler point.

Well I don't know what Hitler really was. But he did actively call upon God and a divine providence in his speeches and opposed Atheism because it was tied to marxism. Does that mean he was Christian? No. He may well have been, but he might not have been. Unlike now, a far larger percentage of the populace of western countries were Christian back then so the odds were that he was, but I don't think it really matters.

If you're in the dictator business you'd be a fool not to use such a great tool. Or in Stalins case, create things like the personality cult to replace it. Remember that Stalin was trained at a seminary, it probably gave him a lot of inspiration.

What worries me are Atheists that would be hypocrites and use religion in such a way. For example, the current Australian Prime-Minister Julia Gillard is an atheist. However she opposes gay marriage on cultural grounds, as does one of the ministers in her cabinet who is actually a lesbian. The labor party would have lost a lot of votes due to such hypocrisy. What it clearly was, was pandering to the Christian vote.

Which I doubt was actually a useful tactic because the vast majority of Australians support gay marriage and the really hardcore Christian that wouldn't vote for the Labor party because of its support of gay marriage would probably not vote for her party anyway because she's an atheist. It just seemed counter productive and hypocritical. 


He's said in speeches he believes in an all powerful god.   He's said in speeches that religion is a disease that must be wiped out at all costs.  He's said in speeches he tried to deal with peoples foolish belief in religion but can't because it's a mistake.

Which of these is likely to be made up?  There is no benefit towards manufactured atheist beliefs.

he didnt have to be one or the other.  he could have believed in god and thought religions are poison



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richardhutnik on 20 October 2010
sapphi_snake said:

BERLIN (AFP) – Germany's attempt to create a multi-cultural society has failed completely, Chancellor Angela Merkel said at the weekend, calling on the country's immigrants to learn German and adopt Christian values.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101017/wl_afp/germanymuslimreligionimmigration

 

Wow, Germany never learns, does it? Now I have no problem with the learning German part (I've always considered it stupid when immigrants don't know the language of their new country), though the whole "without an accent part" is going a little overboard.

However her statement "We feel tied to Christian values. Those who don't accept them don't have a place here" is unacceptable comming from the leader of a nation that calls itself "secular". Is she gonna throw out German atheists? Buddists? Does she not understand the concept of freedom of religion, or the separation between Chruch and State?

Let's see, several thing:

* You believe other nations, besides the United States, has a concept of "separation of Church and State"?

* You consider concern about people not learning the dominant nation of a language, engaging in forced marriage, not getting educated, and not adopting the values of the nation they are living in with being like Hitler?  Are you SERIOUS?  By the way, which "Christian values" are you opposed to, the ones that exist, the ones you think exist that drove you to not have a religious faith, or the ones you think the Germans talk about, or the ones they have?