It's seems we have a difference of opinions, and I'm quite glad, it's best to know the word from as many perspectives as possible.

In Americas, do you really beleive Sony would re-establish itself as the superior brand, despite extreme nationalism?

People hate this, but I have an analogy, US car market.Think about it, Crysler makes the most unreliable cars in the world, and outside the US sales are almost zero. Yet it still stays afloat, even though countless European brands, bigger brands (Fiat, Renault, Alfa Romeo, Citroen, etc, all went under in the US). Even Ford and GM still manage to post sales higher then Honda, and generally about the same level as Toyota (before the recall hurt Toyota sales), despite GM going bankrupt and heavy media critisizing the company for poor quality and buisness decisions.

No matter what happens MS has Americas as long as the PS4 and 720 are similar consoles.

Americas and EMEAA are about the same size, all MS has to do is tie Sony in EMEAA, or just sell more then 70% as well, and it's got superior sales over PS4.

PS3 may have been delayed by a year, and cost an arm and a leg to begin with, but don't you think the RRoD issue MS had for the first 2 years the console was out hurt it's image?

There is no luck in marketing, MS released their console early at the cost of reliability, did it pay off?.... a bit

Also PS4 will have difficulties selling at the start, this will be the first Playstation console not to offer a new form of media playback (PS1 - CD's, PS2 - DVD's, PS3 - Blue-Ray, PSP - UMD). Remember when PS3 first came out, it was a cheap blue ray player. I actually have friends who bought a PS3 only for it's blu-ray capabilities. Don't you think this plays a factor?

I think MS will grow in market share because the 360 establish itself as a brand name, especially in Americas. the 720 won't have to establish itself, and as long as initial reliability is decent, the 720 has a good shot of improving sales from this gen. Sony will likely grow as well, but I think MS will grow more.

You seem to have serious tunnel vision, everthing going magically MSs way and thast it.  As if the other two will just lay down and let them win. 

They were out first in Europe at a good price but now they are 3rd there, PS3 at its much higher price caught up and surpassed it shows how weak MS really is across the pond and world wide. 

MS will be back to 3rd unless they rush hardware again and manage a decent price advantage.

Simply ask your self if they all cost the same and launch at the same time, why buy MS ?

Screw all this crap. This reason the 360 had an excellent launch was because of the games. All of these released within the first two years of releases

• Gears of War
• Halo 3
• Modern Warfare (not exclusive but was big for 360)
• Bioshock (WAS exclusive)
• Mass Effect
• Perfect Dark Zero
• Forza 2
• Project Gotham 2 or 3 I don't remember
• and multiplats like Assassin's creed.

@Jay520

Yep, and if the PS4 has similar structure (eventhough they said they want to make it easier to understand, I'm expecting it to remain the same for some things) then it's gonna rock right from the start. The gap between PS3's and X360's exclusives concerning graphics keeps on widening (until Gears 3 maybe) even multiplat games (AC:B for example looks better than Fable 3) have better graphics than some X360 exclusives. The lack of first party support will be troublesome for Microsoft, Sony on the other hand can offer good games even without thrid party exclusives. The difference between thrid party exclusives and first party, is that first party are completely dedicated to the console, while third party are offently using multiplat engines, and are developing another game in parallel.

I seem to have tunnel vision, but you just ignore things all together..

PS3 is $300, 360 is $300, there is no price difference, so I dunno what you are talking about there. Also MS is generation more profit off the 360 then Sony is the PS3, and still selling as many units, so how exactly is MS losing?

When PS3 first came out, it really lacked a good software lineup. I didn't get mine until 2009, and honestly, before Killzone 2 there was no real reason to get a PS3 over a 360. Price alone is not the reason why the 360 has been selling on par with the PS3 over the last 4 years. At the start price may have been a factor, but RRoD likely counter balanced that, and the fact that the PS3 was the cheapest blu-ray player no doubt helped early PS3 sales. If PS4 and 720 launched at the same time (which I doubt), for the same price, and both consoles are similar like they are now, I don't see any reason why the 720 can't do better then the 360 did now. That's not the subject of this thread though.

I only suggested that Forza has the potential to expand, with the poor reception GT got (poor for GT). 360 dominates Americas, and due to domestic influence, MS will likely dominate the region. So Forza 4 could become bigger then GT5 in Americas given the proper advertizing. That won't budge GT5 lifetime sales much, and Forza will struggle a lot more with EMEAA sales, but with some heavier advertizing, Forza could increase in EMEAA sales.

Next generation if MS pushed Forza and made games more appealing to European gamers, they could grow in EMEAA, and thus grow the Forza franchise.

Exactly, I agree, and haven't you noticed that PS3's software lineup got a lot better in 2009, when it saw it's strongest year in sales? 2010 was pretty awesome for the PS3 as well in the spring, but now that MS has better exclusives for the fall, 360 is in the lead again.

 Ms also had a really strong 2008.

It's not all software, I know, I'm just sayin. Price, and software weight equally when determining which new console to buy.

The gap between the graphics from the PS3 and 360 keeps growing? I just played GT5, and it does not look any different then Forza 3, which came out a year ago. Sure in car is slightly better, but environments are better in Forza.

Fable 3 is not a graphical game, PS3 has Mod Nation Racers, and that looks the same.

The only game, IMHO that looks a level above the PS3/360 average, is Killzone 2 (not 3, 3D gaming has ruined the graphics in that game). Gears of War 2 won best graphics in 2008 just as frequently as Metal Gear Solid 4, and since then I haven't seen any games (other then Killzone 2) that look better. Sure Heavy Rain looks good, but no better then Mass Effect 2. God of War 3 is no more graphcially powerful then Alan Wake, and really after Killzone 2 there is a massive tie between 360 and PS3 games.

As for this 1st/3rd party comment, it hasn't really afffected 360 sales in the past, why would it start now? I also think MS will likely create or buy more in house studios next gen, they haven't really used Rare since they aquired it.

WOW, that statement leads me to belive  that even if PS3 ends up creating a game surpassing crysis visual you would still deny ps3 doesn't have graphical advantage.

seriously if you want to keep beliving that be my guess Im not the one fooling my self.

I finished god of war,Uncharted,KZ2,gears 1 and 2  and have Mass effect 2(PC)  along with Metro2033, and yes best graphic heavy exclusive ps3 has to offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360.

Wake isn't even HD so comparing it to GOW3 is  a joke let alone saying GOW3 isn't any better looking.

The PS3 has been too hard to develop for. That's why it took so long for Sony to bring out tit's first party. Imagine if games like inFamous, Killzone 2, The Last Guardian, Gran Turismo 5, etc had came earlier. By the time the PS3 got it's exclusives coming, it was too late because the 360 had already made it's name

MY point is that next gen, if sony gets it's first party out early, then MS will be in trouble. It all depends how easy the PS4 will be to develop for. Which I think will be easy. Sony also said that the PS4 will come out after the 720 which means that it will most likely be more powerful.

So Sony's job is to get a pretty good lineup(that includes GT6) to show the PS4's power over the 720. Price will be a factor but not that big of one.

Imo price will be the biggest factor, the only feature that could justify the initial pricetag of PS3 was the BluRay feature, a BluRay that was, at the time top of the range and could be updated via software updates instead of having to purchase a new player every time a better version came out? That was the selling point. If PS4 comes out with just as, or even more ridiculous a price tag than PS3, then it'll be "domed" from the start. Don't know about you, but I personally expected PS3 to dominate this generation, and it's still to overtake a considerably lower spec console, 4 years into the launch. Unfortunately I can't comment on the quality of PS3 graphics as a friend that has a PS3 refuses to purchase anymore games for it since he got a 360 in June.