I would assume that one unit equals a starter pack, a Move controller, or a navicon(i.e. the three different units they sell at retail).  If the cameras were being counted as seperate units, then they could say they sold way more than they do, due to all the ones that are already out there from eyepet.

I very much doubt even Sony know the install base.

wow im surprised that the move has sold over 1.5 million in europe alone.

The majority of the difference between what Sony tracks and what ioi tracks is not caused by the time where the product is actually being moved. There will be inventory on shelves for example. Even if Sony ships the move controlers to the EB games warehouses by plane, they need to be trucked out to individual EB games stores.

I'm not sure I understand your 2nd and 3rd point. were they directed at me? I stated that 1.5 million move main hand controllers are out there. I never claimed that that means the install base of move is 1.5 million (even ignore the shipped vs sold thing) because many people will own more than one main controller.

LOL @ Pachter

Now he says it SOLD more than he initially thought!

What no way!? where, when, what did he said?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Now watch the haters quickly change their tone towards patcher!

FROM GOD(for saying PSmove sold bad) to IDIOT(cause he retracted and now says PSmove sold well).

cmon haters don't be shy to show your true colors.

Here is an excerpt from the LA Times Pachter interview:

Although Sony's numbers are for controllers it had shipped to stores, there's a good chance that many of them, if not all, have sold. Many stores sell out of the devices as soon as they're received, said John Koller, director of hardware marketing for Sony's PlayStation business in Foster City, Calif.

"There's minimal on-hand inventory in many stores," Koller said. "We're basically shipping every unit we can make."

Source: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2010/10/sony-move-controllers-playstation-3-ship.html

Good points from both the writer and Sony employee, but it does raise a few questions for those who are in the industry:

1. Do the console manufacturers know how much has sold at each store or each video game retail company? Or are they conflating shipped units with sold units deliberately to inflate numbers and give hype where none is validated?

2. Could it be that stores are ordering Move units en masse with the expectation of holidays coming that they will sell every single Move unit?

3. Should we outside the industry trust industry numbers and public statements from those invested in the success on their face? If so, why? If not, then please tell us just how why they spread this misinformation expecting all of us to be born yesterday?

To further back up my skepticism, here is another quote from the same article:

The company said Thursday that it had shipped 1 million Move controllers in the U.S. and Canada, plus 1.5 million units in Europe, since launching the device Sept. 19. (Move has not yet launched in Asia.)

2.5 million units shipped (1 million Americas; 1.5 Europe) does not mean jack squat. The way I read it is that Gamestop, Best Buy and Wal-Mart are stocking up for the holidays with the expectation of selling everyone of them. I am not so emotionally invested, therefore disconnected from reality to actually believe shipped = sold.

Shipped does not equal sold. All it means is expected to sell with an equal chance it will not sell just as it will sell.

Probably not, as I doubt retailers hand over their sales data to all their suppliers.  They can make an educated guess on how well something is selling though, from orders coming in from retailers(from quantity of units and frequency).  Again...Sony sells to retailers, so THEIR SHIPPED FIGURE IS SOLD. 

I doubt retailers are stockpiling Move units in warehouses this far out from Xmas.  Things tend not to be in the warehouse all that long.  Plus it looks bad on the Profit/Loss as you've then got a multi-million dollar expense that you won't recoup for a couple of months.  Also, if you ordered and took delivery in October, had to pay in November(depending on payment terms obviously), but didn't plan on selling them until December, that's not very good business.

Are you saying that you should never accept any numbers, or information, given to you by anyone involved in that industry/company/government ever?

Sony have the most accurate figures you can have for number of Move units they've sold/that have been produced(like any other company with their own products).  No other entity has as accurate information.  You can either accept what they say, or assume everything everyone tells you is lies.  Though that's not to say that information doesn't get "spun".

Yes it does, Sony shipped means Sony sold.  I doubt whether Gamestop, Wal-Mart et-al are stockpiling Move units now for Xmas.  If they were, why has Sony twice increased production?  To meet a demand that will already be fulfilled with the units that have been stockpiled?

Remember, Patcher is always right when it's negative about Sony.

Some people need a little business sense around these parts.  Retailers aren't just going to buy stuff for fun if they don't think they can sell it.  You may say stuffing the channels - but that only works short term.  That's why for consoles, the shipment numbers are the most accurate guage.  If they do overship in one quarter, it will be conpensated the next quarter.  I don't know why it's so hard to understand.

Unit shipped is a unit sold to Sony, and that's what there SH and management cares about.  If they do a pricedrop, then they have to get inventory reports from all the retail chains to give a rebate on the amount per unit of price reduction.

As for "SHIPPED FIGURE IS SOLD," yes it was sold to the retailer, not to the individual consumer. This is important because stores have inventories, while individual consumers don't (unless we are speaking of the Italian mafia and cigarettes like in Goodfellas). Henceforth, SHIPPED FIGURE IS SOLD TO RETAILER NOT NECESSARILY EACH AND EVERY SHIPPED SOLD TO INDIVIDUAL CONSUMER to use your tone.

As for trusting the credibility of sources, the best thing I learned from a Master's degree and 7 years of college is never to take numbers at face value. Those who have a financial interest in the numbers dictate to their numbers analysts what they want them to say, which is pushed on down the communication line to managers and spokesman.

It is in Sony's best interest to conflate shipped and sold to retailers as shipped and sold to individual consumers. Same standard is applied to numbers from Microsoft, Nintendo and each and every invested industry interest. Numbers will be inflated and conflated because doing so causes hype.

The only numbers I trust are 1st party numbers verified from 3rd party industry trackers such as NPD and VGChartz. So yes, I do trust Sony's and every other vested interest's numbers after they have been collected, organized and analyzed by independent entities. The best way to alleviate a lot of doubt and skepticism is to create an independent, preferably governmental agency who tracks videogame sales along with music, movies and books. This way, with the annual budget process they don't have to be captured by industry in order to get their data in the first place; instead they can demand it with the full legal backing of the US Federal Government.

However, in this political climate with about a 3rd of the US population opposed to any governmental spending, if we had to rebuild the interstate highway system it would never get done because of conservative Republicans and Tea Party loons. Same thing with Hoover Dam, Bonneville Dam and all the other big infrastructure projects which brought such good to so many. Yet, I digress.