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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Malstrom thread 2: Revenge of the Lapsed Gamer

Email: Epic Mickey, Spector, and Storytelling

Hi Sean,

I thought you might be interested by this video :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNNjfo0Se40

Actually, I’m a little concerned. Of course Spector says that a storytelling game is not about a director shoving a scenario down your throat (as your developer drift from games to movies explains) but about giving situations in which you interact, but still, I’m afraid he and his team did this wrong anyway.

I guess we have to wait and see…

A French long time reader

I can understand. When a game maker keeps talking about story, I get scared. Spector saying the concept of the game was pitched from Disney executives is worrying. What do executive dorks know about video games?

There is actually some people from Junction Point who do (or have) read this website. And since I so much try to ‘reverse engineer’ the consumer experience, let me point to a familiar game (to Spector) that successfully ‘told a story’ while the player didn’t feel ‘constrained’: the original Wing Commander.

When I look back at it, the original Wing Commander really was a masterpiece. For those who didn’t experience it, Wing Commander was space shooter dogfight game set in a war of Humans against alien cat creatures called the Kilirathi. You were on the space equivalent of an ‘aircraft carrier’. You played the role of a rookie pilot when you start the game.

Wing Commander famously evolved (or rather de-evolved) into more and more of a movie until literally becoming a movie. But there is an important difference. While actors were brought in with Wing Commander III and IV, Wing Commander II first had a ‘set’ story line. What I see no one mention or remember is that Wing Commander I had a branching storyline though you didn’t realize it when playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPJ-TQc4X84

Above: A fantastic quick look at the Wing Commander series and a very good illustration of the brilliance of Wing Commander I and how the series evolved (or rather de-evolved). Wing Commander is THE game that shifted games from being designer based to production based.

The designer of Starcraft 2 said they were trying to mimic Wing Commander in the ‘in-between’ missions. To this end, they failed. Aside from the incredible graphics, music, and sound (voice acting!) that Wing Commander heralded, let me try to describe the experience.

While in between missions, you could famously go to the bar, go to your bunk, look in your locker, play the arcade machine, talk to pilots at the bar, what was compelling was the missions themselves. Once you left the ship, everything was in your control. While each mission had you set to from Nav 1, to Nav 2, and so on when you pressed autopilot, you could change the order. You could go to Nav 3 first if you wanted. This was often a good idea if you wished to avoid mines and asteroids.

Here’s the rub: the game’s “story” would change depending on what you did with the mission. If you lost your wingman, he or she would be written out entirely. With Maniac, that punk pissed me off because he wouldn’t obey my orders so I shot him down myself. But if something happened like you ejected (right before your ship blew up), it was not a ‘game over’. The STORY went on despite you failing in your mission. What would happen is that the storyline slanted more and more towards the Terrans losing the war. The worse you did in your play, the more the Terrans would lose. The better you did, the more the Kilirathi would lose.

When you look at something like Starcraft 2, the missions are completely either ‘you win or lose’. If you lose during the mission, the game and the story should still go on. It would have been very interesting if this occurred and made you feel that you were actually in control of events. I have yet to see a video game ever do anything remotely like this with a story. Many games have ‘multiple endings’, but nothing like you getting a ‘game over’ yet the game keeps going on. RPG games did this in part with you being resurrected by the king or something. (and losing half your gold).

Story in video games is all about repercussions. If the player’s actions do not show repercussions in the storyline, the player feels cheated. If I kill Lord British instead of praising him, I expect people to react to it. (And some of Ultima’s party members do. But more reaction would have been the thing.) It is always annoying in a RPG to save a town and there was no repercussion from it. No change in the game world.

Another game that successfully does storytelling very well is Star Control 2. After playing through it a gazillion times, you realize the story has only a couple destinations and major changes are due to ‘triggers’ of your actions. But you do not know this when playing. The alien races do not go to you, you come to them. You talk to them when you choose to. You return back to them when you choose to. And the story ‘works’ because the player’s events cause large scale repercussions throughout the game. You play a radio at a certain signal and the Ilwrath believe you are their gods. So you can tell the Ilwrath what to do such as attack an alien race and even give them a silly new name (the dilrats). Next thing you know, the race is careening through the galaxy to go to war at that race, and they introduce you as the dilrats.

Unless the player can create repercussions in the story, any video game story will feel ‘tacked on’. The most important part of a video game is the human who is playing it. Everything revolves around his actions. Even the story.

One common mistake game makers do is that they present a ‘choice screen’. Starcraft 2 did this. This takes away from the experience. This is not how branching should be done. It should be done through the gameplay itself and the player should not realize it. All the player should realize is that his actions caused an event (like a wingman or an alien race dying).

Good game design is to allow the player to feel selfish and believe the world REALLY DOES revolve around everything they do.

For now it might be best if we just post one article of his per post. So my multiple postings after this are just to see if that helps anything with this thread.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network

I so identify with this email, as a lot of the complaints of Nintendo doing things for money have the same logic.

Email: Gaming profits

Goldman just downgraded MS stock from “buy” to “neutral.”  I’m sure investors are really thrilled with all the resources they’re throwing into not making money on Xbox now that their Windows market is eroding.  It’s funny how the gaming press will blather on and on about the “incredible success” of Xbox, when it’s just not turning much of a profit for the company.  But then, gaming press don’t believe in profits or making money; worrying about those things stifles the artist.  That’s why EA is “good” and Activision is “evil.”  EA has done what the hardcore wanted–they now spend tens of millions of dollars to make a niche title like Mirror’s Edge that don’t sell enough to break even, and have lost money for 12 consecutive quarters as a result.  Consequently, the hardcore *love* EA now.  Apparently, the ticket to being a successful “hardcore” company is to bleed money and make games as a charity work.

https://exchange.uky.edu/owa/?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&a=New#ticle/goldman-downgrades-microsoft-cites-change-course-needed-lowers-price-target-32-28">http://www.zerohedge.com/arhttps://exchange.uky.edu/owa/?ae=Item&t=IPM.Note&a=New#ticle/goldman-downgrades-microsoft-cites-change-course-needed-lowers-price-target-32-28

What I never understood is that while the gaming press will go ‘gaga’ or ‘bonkers’ over CONSOLE WAR (which is one console outselling another console), they never ever go any further than that. They will go into exquisite detail about the hardware of the machine, but won’t even give an elementary summary of what the company’s business strategy is. For example, game sites will talk about the detail of the 3DS hardware but won’t tell us what Nintendo’s strategy is for it. Nintendo’s strategy affects us gamers more than anything with the hardware engineering.

I’m not knocking game journalists, but I want to point out that traditionally the only way to make money through writing is to write about money. It is information so valuable that people are willing to pay for it. People are not willing to pay for critics or commentary. But people will pay dearly for a writer to write about money and where to make more of it.

The business side of video games is very volatile and very exciting. It is probably more exciting than the games themselves. Why more video game journalists don’t pick this up (outside of the CONSOLE WAR mentality), I do not know why.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Email: Bushnell: No one over 8 will play the DS

Malestrom please respond to this….
.
Yes he says no one over 8 will play a DS because of Ipads and Iphones.  I think he should’ve said “PSP” instead of DS. Yeah the Iphone and Ipad are fun, portable devices but I know a lot of adults who enjoy the DS.  They’re playing puzzle games and Brain Age and I’m almost 30 and love taking it on the go.
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Now I do agree with your thoughts on the 3DS.  Nintendo’s clearly trying to kill Sony in the 3D market though when the Japanese price was revealed some freaked that it’s estimated to be $300 though an official US price has yet to be revealed (some put it more towards $250) though honestly I couldn’t see it not being expensive since there’s a ton of mind blowing stuff it does. But as you pointed out, it’s mostly porting console games and rehashing N64 games though they are making a new Nintendogs and hopefully they’ll make another 2D Mario which will keep them safe and perhaps this is why they had go the route they did with the 3DS because they knew the increase of populairity of gaming on the Ipad.
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Though you gotta love the new PSP commercials going after the Iphone instead of the DS now.
.

Bushnell is famously wrong with many things he has said and predicted about video games. He is an interesting character, but many of his business ventures fail (as it should be. If you aren’t failing, you aren’t doing anything). The point is that he is no oracle.
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And Bushnell is invested and having a new business venture around the iPad/iPhone. He mentioned on a forum his plans to make something like a board game platform with using something like the iPad in the middle and everyone holding an iPhone type device. Bushnell isn’t talking like a distant observer, he is an active participant in the market. DS is going to be his competitor. Investors would think it made for someone to praise the competition.
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Bushnell also believes we will be using cyborg implants in the future. Do you really need someone to explain why that won’t work?



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Will be catching up on email…

I’ve been busy, but I will be catching up on email. I hesitate to say this because people use it as an opportunity to send me hundreds of emails.

I could just reply through all them really fast and be done. But I think it is better to post them up here with some sort of meaningful reply.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Music #65

Gunstar Heroes

Treasure

Genesis

1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1HwVKrdeKY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRvDn_Em8-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAzwx-6JtWo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGRxveGBJZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo_ZuyleTdI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEW6jpt_5X0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09Cckgt2rsY



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Around the Network

I hope Nintendo has learned from the Other M, Galaxy 2 failures and don; try to push those types of games on the 3DS or in the future on the Wii, in that direction lies failure

 

NSMB 3DS is needed ASAP



RolStoppable said:

This thread is just as annoying as the previous one. There are several ghost posts already and it really doesn't do any good to paste each and every of Malstrom's blog posts in here. It's just a lot to scroll through without anyone bothering to discuss anything. How about just pasting blog entries or excerpts that someone actually wants to discuss?

I vote for Khuutra making a new thread and following the guideline above.


Again, some said they want to see his whole posts, but not give his site any hits.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/email-the-3ds-has-psp-qualities/

 

Wow now he's against the 3DS! I tell you this guy has to be related to Patcher because they say some crazy things.



 

Just because someone is saying something different. Doesn't mean their point of view is right!

Member Of The Wii Squad: Warriors of Light!

One of the 4 Yonkou of Youtube aka Wii Warlords. Other Members include ThaBlackBaron, Shokio, and Cardy.

As much as I am hyped for the 3DS. I'm beginning to get worried that Nintendo might lose it's touch again



This is pretty amazing watching him flip on the 3DS front.  It's the morning after the 3D Koolaid party!

"But the problem is that you cannot disrupt a market that does not exist."

Took him a good long time to reach that point in his reasoning.  Will he be eating his "targeting the low end" stance due to the price reveal?