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Forums - Gaming - FIRST TWO Castlevania Lords Of Shadows REVIEWS IN.....take a bow Konami!

Khuutra on 23 September 2010
Slimebeast said:

I don't mind changing "ripping off God of War" to "ripping off Devil May Cry" though if that makes it easier to get my point.

It no more rips off Devil May Cry than it rips off Castlevania 64, which was also a 3-D Action Platformer. From 199...7?

Your point is groundless.



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Slimebeast on 23 September 2010
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

Obviously God of War traces its roots to Devil May Cry so the basic concept and genre inventor is Devil May Cry.

But the latest iteration in the in the hacknslash genre, and by far the most successful one, is God of War and if you watch the videos of Lords of Shadows you will see they carbon copied God of War. Making the giant boss encounters longer and climbier and saying they got inspired by SOTC is only a bad excuse.

You are not listening. You are not trying. Your understanding of genre distinction is both stunted and persistent in ways that beggar credit or belief.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/23/david-cox-on-rebooting-castlevania-for-a-new-generation/

People have compared the game's combat to that of the God of War series. The platforming is similar to Tomb Raider. Some of the boss fights are highly reminiscent of Shadow of the Colossus. Are these reference points that were actively considered throughout development?

No, the phenomenon of games is ... In the movie business, people don't go up to Scorsese and say, "Hey, Goodfellas is a lot like Godfather." It's something I find a bit irritating, but I understand why people do it. I think people are inspired by other people's work. I think we should remember that Castlevania was doing many of these things that many of these games are doing 10, 15 years before they were.

We've certainly taken inspiration from the original Castlevania. We tried to create an action platformer that people, today's gamers, can understand. I don't think the comparisons are warranted. I think when people play the game properly, get into it, they're going to see they're very different games, hopefully.

I get the impression that you don't know the first thing about 3-D console action games. Tell me if you don't, if you haven't ever really played any, because right now I imagine you haven't and I wouldn't mind being corrected.

It's you who don't listen. Everything is inspired by something else, yes, but when looking at Lords of Shadows it's so obvious that the main inspiration is to copy God of War. This game would look completely different if there was no God of War. Exactly like Dante's Inferno.

I hear you when you say that Castlevania was inspired by Devil may Cry in past iterations and that's how they justify making Lords of Shadow. But fact is they saw God of War and thought that's the best way to do it so we'll do it too.

And your quota from the article is just a poor PR spin. Of course they aren't gonna admit that they copied someone else. It's like Naughty Dog would say they didn't rip off Tomb Raider because there were other games that had a hero jumping between ledges or they didn't rip off Gears of War because some other game had a cover system.



Khuutra on 23 September 2010
Slimebeast said:

It's you who don't listen. Everything is inspired by something else, yes, but when looking at Lords of Shadows it's so obvious that the main inspiration is to copy God of War. This game would look completely different if there was no God of War. Exactly like Dante's Inferno.

I hear you when you say that Castlevania was inspired by Devil may Cry in past iterations and that's how they justify making Lords of Shadow. But fact is they saw God of War and thought that's the best way to do it so we'll do it too.

And your quota from the article is just a poor PR spin. Of course they aren't gonna admit that they copied someone else. It's like Naughty Dog would say they didn't rip off Tomb Raider because there were other games that had a hero jumping between ledges or they didn't rip off Gears of War because some other game had a cover system.

I did not say it was inspire by Devil  May Cry. You really aren't listenign at all. 3-D Castlevania predates Devil May Cry by several years.

You have no basis on which to state their intentions or their actions as to take it.

Now, you and I are goign to have an exercise. You're going to explain to me how they ripped off God of War in a way that is unique to that series. If you want to do it with Devil May Cry instead, be my guest.

And no, "Anyone who looks can see it" is not an answer. You have to be specific, or you have failed.



Slimebeast on 23 September 2010
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

I don't mind changing "ripping off God of War" to "ripping off Devil May Cry" though if that makes it easier to get my point.

It no more rips off Devil May Cry than it rips off Castlevania 64, which was also a 3-D Action Platformer. From 199...7?

Your point is groundless.

It's good you bring that up. Castlevania 64 is much different from devil may Cry. It's not a hacknslash. It's more a Tomb Raider/ modern Prince of Persia.

Now what's interesting is why Lords of Shadow didn't get inspired by Castlevania 64 and take more of a Uncharted/modern PoP/Tomb Raider route. Instead it abandoned that style and copied God of War.



darthdevidem01 on 23 September 2010
Slimebeast said:
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

It appears as a logical progression, but they happened to steal it from God of War.

Most action side scroller Arcade platformers didn't managae to progress into anything. In fact it was hard to transform them into the 3D era and make them work. Prince of Persia, Bionic Commando and Metroid got their respective conversions into 3-D but most Arcade games never made into 3-D.

Castlevania took the God of War concept because it was already there (through Devil May Cry, a new genre invention more than a slow, logical progression). It was easy.

In some way I think it's logical. In some way I don't. Because back when I imagined 3-D conversions of Castlevania-like games such as Ghost and Goblins, Black Tiger, Rastan Saga and Galivan I personally never imagined something like God of War.

I'm going to try this one more time, and I'm not goign to get angry, but you are being obtuse enough that I'm beginning to wonder if you are doing it on purpose.

God of War did not invent the concept of an action-oriented platformer. It was preceded, in 3-D, by both Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden. Hell, it was preceded by Tomb Raider. And dozens of other games. When you go back into 2-D, it gets even worse - but it was actually preceded by several 3-D Castlevanias, too. Lament of Innocence was a 3-D action platformer Castlevania with giant boss fights and came out years before God of War.

Your understanding of genre norms cannot possibly be this narrow.

It did not rip off God of War. Belonging to the same genre does not mean it ripped off God of War. The director actually addresses that issue in the interview. THey did not rip off God of War any more than they ripped off Shadow of the Colossus (which is also mentioned). All of these elements have existed in Castlevania for more than two decades.

They did not rip off God of War.

Obviously God of War traces its roots to Devil May Cry so the basic concept and genre inventor is Devil May Cry. (and therefore past 3-D castlevanias such as  Lament of innocnse are based on Devil May Cry)

But the latest iteration in the hacknslash genre, and by far the most successful one, is God of War and if you watch the videos of Lords of Shadows you will see they carbon copied God of War. Making the giant boss encounters longer and climbier and saying they got inspired by SOTC is only a bad excuse.

Please just stop Slimebeast



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

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kiefer23 on 23 September 2010

Pre-ordering right now,  I knew there was a game I was forgetting about and the fact it's scoring 90% reviews  completely seals the deal.



Slimebeast on 23 September 2010
Khuutra said:
Slimebeast said:

It's you who don't listen. Everything is inspired by something else, yes, but when looking at Lords of Shadows it's so obvious that the main inspiration is to copy God of War. This game would look completely different if there was no God of War. Exactly like Dante's Inferno.

I hear you when you say that Castlevania was inspired by Devil may Cry in past iterations and that's how they justify making Lords of Shadow. But fact is they saw God of War and thought that's the best way to do it so we'll do it too.

And your quota from the article is just a poor PR spin. Of course they aren't gonna admit that they copied someone else. It's like Naughty Dog would say they didn't rip off Tomb Raider because there were other games that had a hero jumping between ledges or they didn't rip off Gears of War because some other game had a cover system.

I did not say it was inspire by Devil  May Cry. You really aren't listenign at all. 3-D Castlevania predates Devil May Cry by several years.

You have no basis on which to state their intentions or their actions as to take it.

Now, you and I are goign to have an exercise. You're going to explain to me how they ripped off God of War in a way that is unique to that series. If you want to do it with Devil May Cry instead, be my guest.

And no, "Anyone who looks can see it" is not an answer. You have to be specific, or you have failed.

* They both have energy ponds.

* Gabriel's chain wip looks just like Kratos' wip.

* It's mostly ground level combat. The platforming/jumping happens only sporadically to give you a little breathing room.

* At certain intervals they stop the action at an arena to fight waves of similar monsters before the camera starts moving forward down a path again.

* The QTEs are executed the same way, both in arenas and in Boss fights.

* the static camera is the same (unlike PoP and Tomb Raider who has a player controlled camera)

* The Bosses are the same. For example the giant who tries to crush Gabriel with his fists is a blatant God of War boss ripoff.

* I haven't witnessed this yet but it probably has puzzles just like God of War.

Someone help me and give some more examples.





Khuutra on 23 September 2010
Slimebeast said:

* They both have energy ponds.

* Gabriel's chain wip looks just like Kratos' wip.

* It's mostly ground level combat. The platforming/jumping happens only sporadically to give you a little breathing room.

* At certain intervals they stop the action at an arena to fight waves of similar monsters before the camera starts moving forward down a path again.

* The QTEs are executed the same way, both in arenas and in Boss fights.

* The Bosses are the same. For example the giant who tries to crush Gabriel with his fists is a blatant God of War boss ripoff.

* I haven't witnessed this yet but it probably has puzzles just like God of War.

Someone help me and give some more examples.

1. THis is not unique to God of War. Hell, it's not even unique to this genre.

2. This is not unique to God of War - in fact, it originates in Castlevania! Go figure.

3. This is not unique to God of War, and has been true of every Castlevania outside of Medusa Head sections.

4. This is not unique to God of War, nor is it unique to this genre.

5. This is not unique to God of War, nor did it start in God of War. See: Shenmue, Indigo Prophecy, etc.

6. The "boss trying to crush [the hero] with their fists" has been a staple of Castlevania since the 8-bit days. There is always, always a boss like this, and it has been so for twenty years.

7. Puzzles are not unique to God of War and they ar not new to Castlevania.

You failed. You have confused genre tropes with ripping off God of War. Congratulations - you defeated yourself.



Hynad on 23 September 2010

So basically, what Slimebeast is trying to really say is that Lords of Shadow is in the same game type as God of War 3.

Just like Modern Warfare 2, Killzone 2 and Halo: Reach are FPSs.

 

But, he's doing it in a very unreasonable trolling way.



Khuutra on 23 September 2010
Hynad said:

So basically, what Slimebeast is trying to really say is that Lords of Shadow is in the same game type as God of War 3.

Just like Modern Warfar 2, Killzone 2 and Halo: Reach are FPSs.

But, he's doing it in a very unreasonable trolling way.

Well that they're the same genre is of course indisputable. If he were saying that, there would be no argument.

But no, he said specifically that the developers set out to copy what made God of War successful. And here we are!